Hi everyone,

I forgot to mention that I modified the echo rules a little. Since there
are so many great projects to bring back clones of classic computers we all love, like the Amiga, ZX Spectrum, Color Computer, and several homebrewed
Z80 systems, the discussion of these current systems is absolutely on-topic
in here and highly encouraged to talk about!

I follow several different computer hobbyist groups on Facebook and it is absolutely amazing to me to see such dedication to these old systems being brought back to life with modern know-how. I am not smart enough to do that myself but I enjoy reading about them.

I don't know if I ever made this clear but emulators for old systems is on-topic in here also.

Just a quick clarification. :)

I have been busy moving my BBS from OS/2 to Devuan Linux so I have been
rather quiet in the echoes lately.

-- Sean
CLASSIC_COMPUTER Moderator

... I told my carpenter not to carpet my steps. He gave me a blank stair.
--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Sean Dennis wrote to All <=-

I forgot to mention that I modified the echo rules a little. Since
there are so many great projects to bring back clones of classic
computers we all love, like the Amiga, ZX Spectrum, Color Computer, and several homebrewed Z80 systems, the discussion of these current systems
is absolutely on-topic in here and highly encouraged to talk about!

I follow several different computer hobbyist groups on Facebook and it
is absolutely amazing to me to see such dedication to these old systems being brought back to life with modern know-how. I am not smart enough
to do that myself but I enjoy reading about them.

I don't know if I ever made this clear but emulators for old systems is on-topic in here also.

Just a quick clarification. :)

I have been busy moving my BBS from OS/2 to Devuan Linux so I have been rather quiet in the echoes lately.

-- Sean
CLASSIC_COMPUTER Moderator

Not often that I tell a moderator "thank you" for a rules clarification.
But, not unheard of. This is one of those occasions. Thanks.

... MS-DOS=suit & tie, Macintosh=cool shades, Amiga=high heels & leather
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Not often that I tell a moderator "thank you" for a rules clarification.
But, not unheard of. This is one of those occasions. Thanks.

I agree. Many of these retro kit computers are a little above my skill
level, but I enjoy reading about other people's experience with them.

Mike


* SLMR 2.1a * Boss spelled backwards is "double SOB".
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Dave Drum wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Not often that I tell a moderator "thank you" for a rules
clarification. But, not unheard of. This is one of those occasions. Thanks.

Sure thing and I don't know why this didn't occur to me earlier. It really
is amazing how many "old computers" are being revived by hobbyists these
days. Makes me wish I'd held onto all of my issues of "Family Computing"
now.

-- Sean

... My other computer is a Timex/Sinclair 1000.
--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

On 19 Feb 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

Not often that I tell a moderator "thank you" for a rules clarification. But, not unheard of. This is one of those occasions. Thanks.

I agree. Many of these retro kit computers are a little above my skill level, but I enjoy reading about other people's experience with them.

I've built several such kits and have a couple more lined up. My advice would be that if it's something that interests you, go for it. No understanding of why or how it works is necessary to assemble a kit computer, and you don't
have to build it all in one day. A little soldering here, a little soldering there... You might make some mistakes, and you'll have to figure out how to correct them, and that's when you start learning why and how it works. In my experience, the makers and/or designers of such kits are extremely willing to help in troubleshooting problems; *they're* the ones who have that knowledge.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Mike Powell wrote to DAVE DRUM <=-

Not often that I tell a moderator "thank you" for a rules clarification. But, not unheard of. This is one of those occasions. Thanks.

I agree. Many of these retro kit computers are a little above my skill level, but I enjoy reading about other people's experience with them.

If you have basic soldering skills (no cold solder joints) and can follow directions you should be OK. Some of the more crude efferts may require you
to be a "mind reader" and be able to intuit what the originator meant by a phrase that was clear in his mind but did not translate exactly to the
printed page. That's what forums such as this and User groups are for.

I'm debating installing WinUAE on this box. But, with W-10 it seems that Micro$not has finally (almost) caught up to my 1987 Amiga 2000.

... Amiga made it possible. Commodore made it dead.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

I've built several such kits and have a couple more lined up. My advice would be that if it's something that interests you, go for it. No understanding of why or how it works is necessary to assemble a kit computer, and you don't have to build it all in one day. A little soldering here, a little soldering there... You might make some mistakes, and you'll have to figure out how to correct them, and that's when you start learning why and how it works. In my experience, the makers and/or designers of such kits are extremely willing to help in troubleshooting problems; *they're* the ones who have that knowledge.

I think I would need to start out with a learn-to-solder kit before moving
up to these kits. :) Look forward to reading about some of your building adventures here.

Mike

* SLMR 2.1a * And we had to chisel taglines into the walls of the cave
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Mike Powell wrote to DAVE DRUM <=-

I agree. Many of these retro kit computers are a little above my skill level, but I enjoy reading about other people's experience with them.

But some of them are a good way to get experience working with soldering irons, multimeters, etc.

One problem with vintage computers is that you can't take them to Best Buy to get them repaired. So if you want to use them, you'll need more knowledge. Even more if you want to get them cheap (i.e. not working) and restore them.

I'm by no means an expert, but I have restored several systems to working condition. And learned a great deal along the way.


... A husband is a lover who pushed his luck too far.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)

Re: Re: Changes in echo rules
By: Ron Lauzon to Mike Powell on Sun Feb 20 2022 11:24 am

I'm by no means an expert, but I have restored several systems to working condition. And learned a great deal along the way.

This is certainly a 'hole in my arsensal', as it were. Soldering is just not my thing (yet).

Hence the idea of recapping motherboards and so on (The Amiga is notorious for requiring this) is beyond me. Thankfully, there are professionals who do this as a service out there.

See also: Pinball machines and keeping those running well!

Tristan.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Extricate BBS - bbs.extricate.org (2:250/11)

On 20 Feb 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

I've built several such kits and have a couple more lined up. My advice be that if it's something that interests you, go for it. No understandin

[...]

I think I would need to start out with a learn-to-solder kit before
moving up to these kits. :) Look forward to reading about some of your building adventures here.

A company called Velleman makes some pretty cool little soldering kits, such
as a die simulator that you can shake and it will display a representation of
a random(?) die face on some LEDs.

Another option is a DSO138 (that's an "oh," not a "zero") oscilloscope kit. It's pretty easy to solder, and when you're done you have a functional oscilloscope that you can use to explore the innards of your kit computer,
when you get there.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 20 Feb 2022, Tristan Greaves said the following...

I'm by no means an expert, but I have restored several systems to wor condition. And learned a great deal along the way.

This is certainly a 'hole in my arsensal', as it were. Soldering is
just not my thing (yet).

Hence the idea of recapping motherboards and so on (The Amiga is
notorious for requiring this) is beyond me. Thankfully, there are professionals who do this as a service out there.

Desoldering is definitely a much bigger challenge than soldering. With new retro kits (such as Lee Hart's Membership Card kits, or Don Superfo's
Harlequin ZX clones) you don't have to desolder unless you make a mistake (which tends to make it a mistake you're not terribly enthused about repeating).

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 20 Feb 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

I think I would need to start out with a learn-to-solder kit before
moving up to these kits. :) Look forward to reading about some of your building adventures here.

This weekend being a long one here in the US, I think I'm either going to
work on an 1802 "COSMAC" kit or an "Altaid" kit. Both were purchased from Lee Hart, and the first step is checking that I have all of the parts, which I believe I do.

I have built one of Lee's kits previously, the Z80 Membership Card, but I
took a little bit different route this time. For the Z80 kit, I bought the whole kit including all of the needed parts. For the 1802 and Altaid kits, I decided to source most of the parts myself. I strongly regret that decision
and would very much recommend against it. Lee has all of the parts at his disposal and tracking them all down myself was a huge pain in the backside.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Sean,

Sure thing and I don't know why this didn't occur to me earlier. It really is amazing how many "old computers" are being revived by
hobbyists these days. Makes me wish I'd held onto all of my issues of "Family Computing" now.

My first computers were:

1) A Radio Shack TRS-80 MC-10 Micro Color Computer. A TV set (with a special adapter) was the monitor, programs were loaded and saved via cassette tape,
an acoustic coupler modem was used for communication with CompuServe or
BBS's, and it had a small box like keyboard...with an optional 16K RAM Expansion Pack (it originally only had 4K).

2) A Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 100. I had a disk drive with it, and special software to load/save files (it was faster than cassette). A special terminal program allowed one to access CompuServe for the forums, with another one, allowing Xmodem file transfers.

3) An 8088 XT, with 640K RAM, a monochrome green monitor, a 20 MB hard drive,
a keyboard, a mouse, plus a 3.5" and a 5.25" floppy drive, with DOS. 3.2 on
it. That was the birthplace of The Thunderbolt BBS nearly 30 years ago.

Daryl

... Upgrade: Remove old bugs, insert new ones.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - Little Rock, Arkansas (1:2320/33)

Daryl Stout wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

My first computers were:

Those were the days, weren't they? I have a Timex/Sinclair 1000 here. I
had a ZX81 as my first computer. My parents bought me a brand-new CoCo 2 in 1984 but that was stolen, sadly.

One of these days, when I get the room, I'd love to set up all of the old computers I have in a mini-museum and an homage to the good old days of computing for me.

-- Sean

... He who laughs last probably doesn't understand the joke.
--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Re: Re: Changes in echo rules
By: Sean Dennis to Daryl Stout on Mon Feb 21 2022 04:25 pm

Those were the days, weren't they? I have a Timex/Sinclair 1000 here. I had a ZX81 as my first computer. My parents bought me a brand-new CoCo 2 in
1984 but that was stolen, sadly.

One of these days, when I get the room, I'd love to set up all of the old computers I have in a mini-museum and an homage to the good old days of computing for me.

I can throw in the Atari 400 that I had as my first computer into the mix.

Salvaged from my parents' attic in recent years. Still worked! I then donated it to the British Computer Museum here in the UK for it to continue to live out its days in peace...

Tristan.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Extricate BBS - bbs.extricate.org (2:250/11)

This weekend being a long one here in the US, I think I'm either going to work on an 1802 "COSMAC" kit or an "Altaid" kit. Both were purchased from Lee Hart, and the first step is checking that I have all of the parts, which I believe I do.

It was not a long weekend here in Kentucky. :)

I have built one of Lee's kits previously, the Z80 Membership Card, but I took a little bit different route this time. For the Z80 kit, I bought the whole kit including all of the needed parts. For the 1802 and Altaid kits, I decided to source most of the parts myself. I strongly regret that decision and would very much recommend against it. Lee has all of the parts at his disposal and tracking them all down myself was a huge pain in the backside.

I will keep this lesson of yours in mind for sure.

The "Altaid" is the one that is meant to fit in an Altoids box, right?

Mike


* SLMR 2.1a * Groundwater. Do you mean crushed ice?
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

On 21 Feb 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

This weekend being a long one here in the US, I think I'm either going t work on an 1802 "COSMAC" kit or an "Altaid" kit. Both were purchased fro Hart, and the first step is checking that I have all of the parts, which believe I do.

It was not a long weekend here in Kentucky. :)

No President's Day holiday?

The "Altaid" is the one that is meant to fit in an Altoids box, right?

All of Lee's Membership Cards are meant to fit into an Altoids tin, within reason. Some have optional expansion cards that make them too tall for the
tin to cose, but in general the CPU and display boards can be entirely
enclosed in an Altoids tin. The various expansion boards for a given kit stack on top of each other, like Arduino shields or Pi bonnets.

The Altaid kit is basically another Membership Card but is based on an 8080 CPU, as was the 1975 Altair 8800. This provides opportunity for a further pun: Altaid 8800. :)

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Hello Daryl,

20 Feb 22 20:19, you wrote to Sean Dennis:

Sean,

Sure thing and I don't know why this didn't occur to me earlier.
It really is amazing how many "old computers" are being revived
by hobbyists these days. Makes me wish I'd held onto all of my
issues of "Family Computing" now.

My first computers were:

1) A Radio Shack TRS-80 MC-10 Micro Color Computer. A TV set (with a special adapter) was the monitor, programs were loaded and saved via cassette tape, an acoustic coupler modem was used for communication
with CompuServe or BBS's, and it had a small box like keyboard...with
an optional 16K RAM Expansion Pack (it originally only had 4K).

2) A Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 100. I had a disk drive with it, and
special software to load/save files (it was faster than cassette). A special terminal program allowed one to access CompuServe for the
forums, with another one, allowing Xmodem file transfers.

3) An 8088 XT, with 640K RAM, a monochrome green monitor, a 20 MB hard drive, a keyboard, a mouse, plus a 3.5" and a 5.25" floppy drive, with DOS. 3.2 on it. That was the birthplace of The Thunderbolt BBS nearly
30 years ago.

what bbs (mailer, tosser, etc) did you run on your XT ?

Regards,
--
dp

telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

... 4:26pm up 4 days, 1:26:23, load: 72 processes, 274 threads.
--- GoldED/2 1.1.4.7+EMX
* Origin: Roon's BBS - Budapest, HUNGARY +36-1-4454412 (2:371/52)

This weekend being a long one here in the US, I think I'm either going work on an 1802 "COSMAC" kit or an "Altaid" kit. Both were purchased fr
Hart, and the first step is checking that I have all of the parts, whic
believe I do.

It was not a long weekend here in Kentucky. :)

No President's Day holiday?

Banks got the holiday, and Federal employees did. State employees did not.
Local governments vary and, from what I can tell, most private businesses
were open.

The Altaid kit is basically another Membership Card but is based on an 8080 CPU, as was the 1975 Altair 8800. This provides opportunity for a further pun:
Altaid 8800. :)

Some of these sound interesting but, since I never used one, I am not sure
how much I would get out of it. My first computer was a TI99/4A, and my
second was an XT clone. Both are sitting on the desk behind me and still
work, although both are currently out of commission as my work-from-home equipment is sitting on top of them.

I did see something the other day in a FB BBS group where someone had
cobbled together a working dial-up modem. That might get more immediate
use here. My supply of working, vintage modems has dwindled down to one or two, and I still have dial-up. :)

I did play around with the Hercules (???) project some, and briefly had a "working mainframe" environment on a spare PC. That is something I have
some familiarity with, although the OSes I am familiar with are still very
much copyrighted and not available to the regular hobbiest.


* SLMR 2.1a * Tinnn Rooooooooof! --Rusted!
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

what bbs (mailer, tosser, etc) did you run on your XT ?

Not sure about Daryl's, but mine ran GT Power BBS software. It had its own proprietary network mailer/tosser which was only compatable with networks
built on its topology. One thing it had going for it was that all messages entered into an echo were routed to the sponsor's/moderator's system first.
Made it much easier to moderate echos! :)

My XT had an internal 2400 baud modem. For the longest time, I could only
get it to work at 1200 on outgoing calls. Finally figured out how to set
it up properly to get full use out of it.

I also tried once to put an upgraded 8-bit serial card in it so I could use
a 16550 UART and a faster modem. Did not work as well as I expected. That eventually lead me to my third PC, an 80386DX-40. I loved that machine!

I still have it somewhere, too, but I think the power supply on it stopped working.


* SLMR 2.1a * AAAAA - American Association Against Acronym Abuse
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Mike Powell wrote to JEFF THIELE <=-

* SLMR 2.1a * Tinnn Rooooooooof! --Rusted!

I see who you quoted there. <G>

-- Sean

... One of the best things people can have up their sleeve is a funny bone.
--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Sean,

Those were the days, weren't they? I have a Timex/Sinclair 1000 here.
I had a ZX81 as my first computer. My parents bought me a brand-new
CoCo 2 in 1984 but that was stolen, sadly.

Now, I'll hear the theme song from "All In The Family" the rest of the
day. <G>

One of these days, when I get the room, I'd love to set up all of the
old computers I have in a mini-museum and an homage to the good old
days of computing for me.

Not a bad idea. I note a lot of that in the bulletin I have on the
history of the BBS.

Daryl

... Energizer bunny arrested. Charged with battery.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - Little Rock, Arkansas (1:2320/33)

Dan,

what bbs (mailer, tosser, etc) did you run on your XT ?

I ran GT Power for dial-up, then first used FrontDoor and
GEcho for the tosser...then switched to InterMail for the
frontend (I ran BGFAX at the back end), and InterEcho for
the tosser...first under DOS 3.2, then DOS 5, then DOS 6
and 6.22 -- the latter had DESQView for multitasking (the
BBS was single node dial-up), and QEMM for memory management.
I didn't switch to telnet until about 15 years after the BBS
first came online...The Thunderbolt BBS turns 30 on May 1.

Quarterdeck Software, who made DESQView and QEMM...along
with TeleGraphix, who pioneered RIP Graphics, are both long
since out of business. I will note one former Sysop thought
that "I thought RIP was what you did to a fart". <G>

Daryl

... Effective cure for being a twit -- become a Sysop!!
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - Little Rock, Arkansas (1:2320/33)

Daryl Stout wrote to Daniel Path <=-

frontend (I ran BGFAX at the back end), and InterEcho for

B.J. Gulliot, the author of BGFAX, is still alive and well. He's a member
of my BBSing 2.0 Facebook group. Dale Barnse is still developing InterMail and is a current member of Fidonet.

-- Sean

... There are lots of good $1.99 burgers but they run $8.99 these days.
--- MultiMail/Linux
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)

Mike,

Not sure about Daryl's, but mine ran GT Power BBS software. It had its own proprietary network mailer/tosser which was only compatable with networks built on its topology. One thing it had going for it was that all messages entered into an echo were routed to the
sponsor's/moderator's system first.
Made it much easier to moderate echos! :)

I ran GT Power from 1992 to 2005, while it was still under dial-up only.
For the same reasons you noted, I preferred the way GT tossed messages. If
I knew how to create a command shell, I'd do one for Synchronet.

Daryl

... The severity of the itch is proportional to the reach.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - Little Rock, Arkansas (1:2320/33)

Hello Mike,

22 Feb 22 16:41, you wrote to me:

what bbs (mailer, tosser, etc) did you run on your XT ?

Not sure about Daryl's, but mine ran GT Power BBS software. It had
its own proprietary network mailer/tosser which was only compatable
with networks built on its topology. One thing it had going for it
was that all messages entered into an echo were routed to the sponsor's/moderator's system first. Made it much easier to moderate
echos! :)

My XT had an internal 2400 baud modem. For the longest time, I could
only get it to work at 1200 on outgoing calls. Finally figured out
how to set it up properly to get full use out of it.

I also tried once to put an upgraded 8-bit serial card in it so I
could use a 16550 UART and a faster modem. Did not work as well as I expected. That eventually lead me to my third PC, an 80386DX-40. I
loved that machine!

I still have it somewhere, too, but I think the power supply on it
stopped working.

and what was the setup for the 386? same bbs software?

Regards,
--
dp

telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

... 9:55pm up 6 days, 6:55:22, load: 76 processes, 278 threads.
--- GoldED/2 1.1.4.7+EMX
* Origin: Roon's BBS - Budapest, HUNGARY +36-1-4454412 (2:371/52)

and what was the setup for the 386? same bbs software?

I ran the same BBS software but, on the 386, it ran under Desqview. Also
had a 14.4 and, latter, 33.6, modem instead of the 2400. :)

Mike


* SLMR 2.1a * I'm just here for moral support... please ignore the gun.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Sean,

B.J. Gulliot, the author of BGFAX, is still alive and well. He's a
member of my BBSing 2.0 Facebook group. Dale Barnes is still
developing InterMail and is a current member of Fidonet.

B.J. is also an amateur radio operator...I'm not sure of Dale Barnes.
But I was very happy with both products.

... There are lots of good $1.99 burgers but they run $8.99 these days.

Just like the song "Lord, Mister Ford" by Jerry Reed. One of the lines
notes "Well, I figured it up, and over a period of time, this $4000 car
of mine cost $14,000 and 99 cents". <G>

Daryl

... You can't force it to rain by waxing your car.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - Little Rock, Arkansas (1:2320/33)

Re: Re: Changes in echo rules
By: Daryl Stout to Mike Powell on Wed Feb 23 2022 09:11 am

I ran GT Power from 1992 to 2005, while it was still under dial-up only. For the same reasons you noted, I preferred the way GT tossed messages. If
I knew how to create a command shell, I'd do one for Synchronet.

Interesting. There was a MajorBBS system called GT Power BBS out of Southern California back in the early to mid-90s. If I were to guess, it wasn't yours.

Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com (1:104/116)

I ran GT Power from 1992 to 2005, while it was still under dial-up only. For the same reasons you noted, I preferred the way GT tossed messages. If I knew how to create a command shell, I'd do one for Synchronet.

Interesting. There was a MajorBBS system called GT Power BBS out of Southern lifornia back in the early to mid-90s. If I were to guess, it wasn't yours.

GT Power was the actual name of the software. Interesting that someone
used the name for a BBS running different software. :) My other BBS,
Moe's Tavern, still runs GT Power here on port 27 and on dial-up.

Mike


* SLMR 2.1a * Never mind the star, get those camels off my lawn!
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)