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  • Where does the comma go?

    From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to All on Thu Dec 2 12:46:47 2021
    Hi, All!

    A well-known Christmas carol titled "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen" has been parodied on Twitter. Give that we're studying English, you might enjoy this. Please be sure to view it as a video, not just an audio track, as the displayed text is important.

    The link is https://twitter.com/RamsesThePigeon/status/1466168057676578818?s=20

    I hope you'll be able to view this, and enjoy!!

    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dallas Hinton on Mon Dec 6 09:06:07 2021
    Hi, Dallas Hinton!
    I read your message from 02.12.2021 12:46

    DH> A well-known Christmas carol titled "God Rest Ye Merry,
    DH> Gentlemen" has been parodied on Twitter. Give that we're
    DH> studying English, you might enjoy this. Please be sure to view
    DH> it as a video, not just an audio track, as the displayed text
    DH> is important. The link is
    DH> https://twitter.com/RamsesThePigeon/status/1466168057676578818?s=20 I
    DH> hope you'll be able to view this, and enjoy!!

    IMHO, the main problem is not in commas but in some English verbs that
    can be translated in great variety of ways. ;-)

    Bye, Dallas!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.english_tutor 2021
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to alexander koryagin on Wed Dec 15 23:56:36 2021
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Dallas Hinton:

    "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen" has been parodied on Twitter.

    IMHO, the main problem is not in commas but in some English
    verbs that can be translated in great variety of ways. ;-)
    |a great variety


    Understood. If your dictionaries include phrases like "rest easy" & "rest assured" that's close to the mark. If they say "rest" means to be still and/or relaxed... not agitated or troubled... that's also close to the mark.

    WRT "rest" as a transitive verb, I might say I need to rest my weary bones after some physical exertion. This means I'd like to allow or enable my body to relax for awhile. Years ago some people would have said "God rest his soul"... now classified as archaic. "God rest you" is listed in our 1971 OED, but I had to wade through +/- eight pages of detail in small print to find it.

    I feel your pain WRT deceptively short & simple words which are used in various ways. It reminds me of problems I had with the French language. I see an added complication WRT this song, however. As people become more adept at reading (e.g.) they learn to group words into phrases. "God rest ye merry" no longer makes sense to a lot of people our era & some of them try to correct what they regard as an error in punctuation. These amendments are significant in terms of performing arts. The OED cites Shakespeare as having written "God rest you merry, sir." I conclude that those who think the comma belongs after "merry", as it appears in older versions of the song, are probably right. :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ardith Hinton on Thu Dec 16 13:42:34 2021
    Hi, Ardith Hinton!
    I read your message from 15.12.2021 23:56

    DH>> "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen" has been parodied on Twitter.

    ak>> IMHO, the main problem is not in commas but in some English verbs
    ak>> that can be translated in great variety of ways.
    AH> |a great variety

    AH> Understood. If your dictionaries include phrases like "rest easy"
    AH> & "rest assured" that's close to the mark. If they say "rest" means
    AH> to be still and/or relaxed... not agitated or troubled... that's
    AH> also close to the mark.

    AH> WRT "rest" as a transitive verb, I might say I need to rest my
    AH> weary bones after some physical exertion. This means I'd like to
    AH> allow or enable my body to relax for awhile. Years ago some people
    AH> would have said "God rest his soul"... now classified as
    AH> archaic. "God rest you" is listed in our 1971 OED, but I had to
    AH> wade through +/- eight pages of detail in small print to find it.

    AH> I feel your pain WRT deceptively short & simple words which are
    AH> used in various ways. It reminds me of problems I had with the
    AH> French language. I see an added complication WRT this song,
    AH> however. As people become more adept at reading (e.g.) they learn
    AH> to group words into phrases. "God rest ye merry" no longer makes
    AH> sense to a lot of people our era & some of them try to correct what
    AH> they regard as an error in punctuation. These amendments are
    AH> significant in terms of performing arts. The OED cites Shakespeare
    AH> as having written "God rest you merry, sir." I conclude that those
    AH> who think the comma belongs after "merry", as it appears in older
    AH> versions of the song, are probably right.

    OK, "God rest you merry, sir." But not OK, ;-) I am still have a vague understanding of this phrase. Write it in other words.

    Bye, Ardith!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.english_tutor,local.cc.ak 2021
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to alexander koryagin on Thu Dec 16 12:01:29 2021
    Hi, alexander -- on Dec 16 2021 at 13:42, you wrote:

    OK, "God rest you merry, sir." But not OK, ;-) I am still have a
    vague understanding of this phrase. Write it in other words.

    Try: "May God keep you happy (or content), sir".


    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dallas Hinton on Fri Dec 17 10:43:41 2021
    Hi, Dallas Hinton!
    I read your message from 16.12.2021 12:01

    DH> Hi, alexander -- on Dec 16 2021 at 13:42, you wrote:
    ak>> OK, "God rest you merry, sir." But not OK, ;-) I am still
    ak>> have a vague understanding of this phrase. Write it in
    ak>> other words.
    DH> Try: "May God keep you happy (or content), sir".

    "God bless you!" in other words. ;-)


    Bye, Dallas!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.english_tutor,local.cc.ak 2021
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to alexander koryagin on Fri Dec 17 10:45:41 2021
    Hi, alexander -- on Dec 17 2021 at 10:43, you wrote:

    DH> Try: "May God keep you happy (or content), sir".

    "God bless you!" in other words. ;-)

    I don't think that quite captures the flavour - although it's close! :-)



    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to alexander koryagin on Wed Dec 22 15:26:11 2021
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    OK, "God rest you merry, sir." But not OK, ;-) I am still have
    a vague understanding of this phrase. Write it in other words.


    The OED doesn't define this phrase, apart from its components, and I had to think about it too. I must confess that although I am quite comfortable with 17th century English, I often find Shakespeare's works a bit of a stretch.

    The best translation I can come up with is "God keep/maintain you in a state of happiness/joy". This seems appropriate if the gentlemen in the song rejoice whilst they & other Christians are celebrating the birth of Jesus.

    Nowadays people would be more inclined to say "God bless you", which isn't exactly the same... as Dallas remarked... but uses even fewer words. :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)