Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 12.03.2022 02:59

ak>> children (by Arkadiy Gaydar), and she read that some Russian nasty

DP> Arkadiy Gaydar was an alcoholic, because he killed a lot of
DP> Russians during our civil war.

I don't know how these two things can be connected, but surely you are
too serious about my joke about Nuland's motives. :-)

ak>> boys can be bribed by western enemies with big quantity of jam and
ak>> crackers. So you know now what she did in Kiev in 2014. Bingo!

DP> Gaydar was part of propadanda during Stalin's repsessions agains
DP> Russian people. He was drinking a lot and spent some time in mental
DP> hospital because he was a child soldier.

IMHO, judging by the appearance and actions of his grandson, the chief
of economic reforms in Russia of 90s Egor Gaydar, there were some
genetic defects in their family. ;-)

ak>> In Kiev coup there participated a few thousand people, mostly
ak>> nationalists from western Ukraine. But the real popular uprising
ak>> had begun in the Ukrainian east and south, after the coup.

DP> Fake, Russia sent groups of fighters to DNR/LNR and invaded Crimea.
DP> Kharkiv never had any uprisings and now fighting with Russians
DP> forces, in fact it doing better in comparison with Nazi invasion in
DP> 1941.

Knarkiv had avoided that havoc due to the wise and independent policy of
its mayor, Kernes, AFAIR, who didn't allowed nationalists to do
everything the wanted. It was an exception however.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 11.03.2022 11:27

ak>> How many vistims you are told? No information? The mentioned
ak>> maternity hospital in Mariupol was not functional -- it is
ak>> correct.

WD> The thing is... as good as every western European country has their
WD> own news crews at several locations inside Ukraine. They do not
WD> have to rely on propagande from whichever side, not the Kremlin,
WD> not someone in Kiev.

I've took your answer as "I don't know about victims, but they say on
our TV that the maternity hospital was attacked inhumanly". ;)

WD> Then, when presented with the facts as reported by independant news
WD> crews on site from Belgium, Netherlands, France, BBC, Germany and
WD> others and compare that to what we see in the official "Russian
WD> news" flashes I am abhored how an entire population of 140 million
WD> people is massively lied to and misled up to the extent they have
WD> no other option but believe the single remaining source
WD> of... "what"... because the free press has been silenced and you
WD> are imprisoned for merely using the word "war"... It is not a re-
WD> writing of history, it is distorting it up to the moment when it
WD> actually is happening... Lies are deliberately replacing fact and
WD> forcefully fed to an entire population.

A lie and propaganda exist on both sides. It will be simply a folly to
deny it. Such things are usual during the war. You should analyse and
filter the information. For instance, nationalists may say that people
in Odessa in 2014 burned themselves on purpose. But you should not
believe the information on the ground of its antirussian contence.

<skipped>
WD> Russia will be banned from importing, exporting, trading, travel,
WD> aviation, sports, no access to the financial markets... above all,
WD> much of this will not have to be imposed, it will be automatic
WD> because it is no longer a trustworthy trade-partner... the toilet-
WD> paper in the supermarket here is worth more than the Ruble.

Indeed Rouble is not necessary in your supermarket. But for a while the
EU relieved from sanctions Russian fuel industry. Russian banks are
under sanctions, but paying for resources nobody can cancel and they are allowed. That's how Putin gets its currency and it seems the west cannot refuse from Russian resources physically.

WD> Russia is quickly pushing a law through that leased aircraft do not
WD> have to be returned to the owner and the contract can be paid in
WD> Rubles. Do you understand how ridiculous this is? There will be no
WD> specialized maintenance anymore other than changing the oil, there
WD> are not going to be any certified parts anymore for repairs after
WD> which aircraft will not be insured anymore... 515 Boeings and
WD> Airbuses... it will be the end of commercial aviation in Russia as
WD> we know it and Aeroflot in one blow has lost its good reputation...
WD> I even let my own kids fly on it and before I allow that a lot has
WD> got to happen...

It is an economic war. Both parts want damnify each other. There are no special logic here, everything natural. After war I hope for the better. ;)

WD> I hope you also don't believe this whole thing is about the Dombas
WD> region and a difference in language-speaking. My own country has a
WD> history of two main languages that kind of separates the country,
WD> it never is a problem. It only becomes a problem in the run-up to

You simply don't know who Ukrainian nationalists are. Violence and
threats are their usual weapon to get their aims.

WD> elections when minor politicians go hunting for votes. The language
WD> is not the issue. When we had major floods last summer killing 100+
WD> people and destroying thousands of homes in 'the one region' the
WD> immediate and in general most help came from 'the other region'.
WD> People will help eachother and a language-difference probably
WD> points at something else, like an economic imbalance hinging on
WD> this...

I don't argue -- there can be perfectly good and happy bilingual states.
You don't understand only one important thing -- it is not necessary
that fascism is always has a political ground. National fascism is still
more dangerous and ugly.

WD> The Dombas-conflict was started by Russia in the first place in a
WD> carefully planned strategy years ahead, it was started by Russia
WD> and fuelled by Russia because somewhere down the line an excuse
WD> would be needed to start this "war". So when all the possible
WD> excuses were de-fused Putin decided upon a "Damn the torpedoes,
WD> full speed ahead" scenario.

You are free to think everything, but it is not necessary that you are
right.

WD> Proof? MH17... we know that flight MH17 was shot down by a Russian
WD> Buk-missile because of the impact of shrapnell on the forward
WD> section of the aircraft and the metal bullits found in the corpses
WD> of the cockpit crew. We know it was fired from within "rebel"
WD> territory, we know the "rebels" did not have such a device,
WD> pictures exist of the exact carrier that fired it before and after
WD> the firing, the names of the personnel that crewed it are also
WD> known and the commander is now standing trial as we speak but is
WD> not present because your lying and cheating government says it is
WD> not involved with all evidence pointing to the contrary... the
WD> carrier has been tracked leaving Russia and returning when the
WD> plane was shot down.

Whoever shot that plane, I think you don't believe that somebody planned
that shooting. Well, there is a possibility however, that somebody
wanted to frame the rebels and Russia. They lost most.

WD> It's on my bucket-list to visit Russia again, meet with some
WD> Russian sysops, drink so much beer I will sing alomg in drinking-
WD> songs which I don't understand but make absolute sense at that
WD> moment. I'd want to visit Red Square and pay homage to Komarov, see
WD> that Lenin still is dead, visit the Hermitage in St. Peterburg,
WD> walk on the Nevsky Prospect, see the war ship Aurora which changed
WD> history and visit Chernobyl (yes, I know that is not Russia)... now
WD> I don't know if all that will ever be possible anymore during my
WD> life-time...

I think that everything will be all right soon. Because both parties
should realise that the cause of this war is not worth of an eaten egg. Ukrainians and Russian can live next and do not compost each other
brains in the bilingual prosperous Ukraine.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello alexander!

12 Mar 22 13:04, alexander koryagin wrote to Ward Dossche:

I've took your answer as "I don't know about victims, but they say on
our TV that the maternity hospital was attacked inhumanly". ;)

Yeah, sure, given you want to go on blindfolded by Russian propaganda. OTOH, you may take it as "They did proper fact checks and along the way even discovered how Russian media produced fake news from it.".


Regards,
Gerrit

... 11:48AM up 65 days, 22:43, 5 users, load averages: 0.69, 0.57, 0.53

--- msged/fbsd 6.3 2021-12-02
* Origin: Tall orders to fulfil (2:240/12)

Alexander,

Whoever shot that plane, I think you don't believe that somebody planned that shooting. Well, there is a possibility however, that somebody
wanted to frame the rebels and Russia. They lost most.

I'm pretty convinced it was planned and on purpose ... why else shoot a Buk at an airplane ... They probably targeted another aircraft ... like a NATO radar plane ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Do you believe, or want me to believe that a few thousand people
overthrough a popular leader and the rest just went along with
that? No.

If a crowd has weapons and when the President doesn't want to suppress
them down with force. It is possible. And Yanukovich has proved it. And
Pitin and Lukashenko has learnt a lot.

Putin has not learned even after his wars in Afghanistan and Syria (among others). He does not want to learn and is incapable of learning. He is a dictator.

I have to ask again. Do you believe, or want me to believe that a few thousand people overthrough a popular leader and the people of Ukraine just along with that? No.

The people of Ukraine want to go in the direction of their choosing. They choose to go in the direction of the EU and NATO. The reasons for this are crytal clear today and I hope their choice will be realized.

Well, imagine what would happen if the storming of the Capitol would not
be suppressed. As it was in Kiev in 2014 where the parliamentarian would
go to their work through the crowd, insults and threats.

The events of 2014 and 2020 are not the same. Not even the same continent.

It had been proved

Really!? Now you are talking silly.

that this woman was brought there after the shelling.

The woman has since had her baby and is safe and sound. As safe as a person can be when under attack from bombs and missiles of a rogue state like the Russian Federation.

A propaganda in short.

Propagana is a real thing I know. This is a real life story, a true story and there are many more.

The people of Russia now live in a constant state of propaganda. The government has outlawed the truth in Russia. This is not new but it has ramped up. Media outlets have closed up (or moved) shop rather than risk a 15 year jail term for using words like "war" or "invasion" even when appropriate.

What the people get in Russia today is fake news with headlines and stories provided by the state.

And I say the you the following -- Russian media channels were shut up
and you relay only on the Ukrainian side of information.

I think it is you that should/will speak of the Russian side?

If there is info I can get to you, I will try.

In this situation your truth is hardly worth of a used condom.

I hope you can find an unused condom, should the need arise. I can't help you with that.

It is complete wrong to shut up information from one side, even if you don't agree with it.

I will not shut up anything from any side.

I am a strong supporter of free speech. People should decide themselves.

I am also and yes people can and will decide for themselves. They will make better fact based decisions if they have good facts to base their conclusions.

If people are making decisions that are not based on honest facts/truths then I like to keep a comfortable distance.

Propaganda can say anything on both sides.

Propaganda is not good for anything/anyone.

Reaction? After the UN has accepted 14 thousand killed in Ukrainian Donbass siege nobody has said nothing about it.

The situation in the Donbass is settled. We know what is happening there. The actions of Russian backed separatists has destablized the region.

Factoid: There are now in excess of 2,500,000 refugees caused by the Russian Federations war against Ukraine as the onslought continues against civilians on the ground. A large part of that number is now in Poland and countries west of Ukraine.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Saturday March 12 2022 11:57, you wrote to me:

Arkadiy Gaydar was an alcoholic, because he killed a lot of
Russians during our civil war.

I don't know how these two things can be connected, but surely you are
too serious about my joke about Nuland's motives. :-)

My colleagues are under shelling in Ukraine, I am too serious.
Gayday was drinking because he saw dead people in his dreams, people he killed in civil war.
That's why he was drinking a lot.

Gaydar was part of propadanda during Stalin's repsessions agains
Russian people. He was drinking a lot and spent some time in
mental hospital because he was a child soldier.

IMHO, judging by the appearance and actions of his grandson, the chief
of economic reforms in Russia of 90s Egor Gaydar, there were some
genetic defects in their family. ;-)

You sounds exactly like some Nazi, with "genetic defects" slogan.
USSR collapse was a disaster and your are blaming Gaydar and not Stalin and Lenin, who created our state which was based on corruption and crazy ideas.

Fake, Russia sent groups of fighters to DNR/LNR and invaded
Crimea. Kharkiv never had any uprisings and now fighting with
Russians forces, in fact it doing better in comparison with Nazi
invasion in 1941.

Knarkiv had avoided that havoc due to the wise and independent policy
of its mayor, Kernes, AFAIR, who didn't allowed nationalists to do
everything the wanted. It was an exception however.

And now Kharkiv is paying a price. Beeing destroyed by Russians who are "protecting Russians".


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 11.03.2022 10:45

ak>> In Kiev coup there participated a few thousand people, mostly
ak>> nationalists from western Ukraine. But the real popular uprising
ak>> had begun in the Ukrainian east and south, after the coup.

AI> Do you believe, or want me to believe that a few thousand people
AI> overthrough a popular leader and the rest just went along with
AI> that? No.

If a crowd has weapons and when the President doesn't want to suppress
them down with force. It is possible. And Yanukovich has proved it. And
Pitin and Lukashenko has learnt a lot.

Well, imagine what would happen if the storming of the Capitol would not
be suppressed. As it was in Kiev in 2014 where the parliamentarian would
go to their work through the crowd, insults and threats.

AI>>> And yes, the Russian military has been targetting civilians and
AI>>> civilian infrastructure. On Feb 26 and apartment tower in Kyiv
AI>>> was hit by a missile and the carnage has increased since then.
AI>>> Today a childrens hospital in Mariupol was hit and probably
AI>>> destroyed. It's been a daily occurance since the war started.

ak>> How many vistims you are told? No information? The mentioned
ak>> maternity hospital in Mariupol was not functional -- it is
ak>> correct.

AI> The hospital was functioning. There are images of pregnant women
AI> being taken away for treatment. Three people died and there were

It had been proved that this woman was brought there after the shelling.
A propaganda in short.
And I say the you the following -- Russian media channels were shut up
and you relay only on the Ukrainian side of information. In this
situation your truth is hardly worth of a used condom. It is complete
wrong to shut up information from one side, even if you don't agree with
it. I am a strong supporter of free speech. People should decide themselves.

AI> large numbers of injured as I'm sure you can imagine. The number of
AI> dead is likely to rise when the facts can be known. Over 1,000 died
AI> in Mariupol yesterday because of the bombardment of the city that
AI> has been ongoing for some days. Most people in Mariupol have no
AI> heat or power.

AI> So no it is not correct to say the hospital not functional.

AI> I haven't heard or read numbers of dead today but the last number I
AI> read was 2,300 civilians dead, not including Mariupol. The number
AI> of Russian soldiers killed is estimated at 12,000 by Ukraine
AI> authorities and the US miliatry says 8,000, at least they are
AI> sitting on that number for now.

Propaganda can say anything on both sides. Reaction? After the UN has
accepted 14 thousand killed in Ukrainian Donbass siege nobody has said
nothing about it.

<skipped>


Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 12.03.2022 13:26

ak>> Whoever shot that plane, I think you don't believe that
ak>> somebody planned that shooting. Well, there is a
ak>> possibility however, that somebody wanted to frame the
ak>> rebels and Russia. They lost most.
WD> I'm pretty convinced it was planned and on purpose ... why else
WD> shoot a Buk at an airplane ... They probably targeted another
WD> aircraft ... like a NATO radar plane ...

Well, among 14 thousand civilians killed in Donbass siege almost all
were killed without intention. When Ukrainian side has shelled Donetsk
nobody can guarantee that the shells will not drop on the civilians. In
this sense the passengers in that plane were like people of Donbass. It
was a sad incident of course.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Gerrit Kuehn!
I read your message from 12.03.2022 13:48

ak>> I've took your answer as "I don't know about victims, but
ak>> they say on our TV that the maternity hospital was attacked
ak>> inhumanly".;)
GK> Yeah, sure, given you want to go on blindfolded by Russian
GK> propaganda. OTOH, you may take it as "They did proper fact
GK> checks and along the way even discovered how Russian media produced
GK> fake news from it.".

Both sides are lying, that why it is wrong to shut up one side only. And
how can you appreciate the fakes from the Russian media if they shut up?

Bye, Gerrit!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Alexander,

In
this sense the passengers in that plane were like people of Donbass. It
was a sad incident of course.

Except, in this case it was a plane full with citizens of the Netherlands and they don't take shit for an answer ...

It's 2022 and I still can't believe this is happening ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi! Ward,

On 13 Mar 2022, Ward Dossche said the following...

this sense the passengers in that plane were like people of Donbass. I was a sad incident of course.

WD> Except, in this case it was a plane full with citizens of the

Netherlands and they don't take shit for an answer ...

Our collective heartache has yet to be assuaged also. IIRC, there were 28 Australians on board as well others from various nationalities.

Cheers,
Paul.

... Modeming takes a lot of time. Oh well, I'd just be asleep otherwise!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/32)
* Origin: Quinn's Rock vBox - sunny-side up on the desktop (3:640/1384)

Hello alexander!

13 Mar 22 14:35, alexander koryagin wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Both sides are lying, that why it is wrong to shut up one side only.

Meanwhile there is an obvious difference in the quality and quantity of lies in orders of magnitude. Mr. Putin is the most embarrassing leader of a country and the most pathetic public liar I've seen in a very long time.

And
how can you appreciate the fakes from the Russian media if they shut
up?

Neither did I appreciate their fakes nor did I ask them to shut up (although it would be really helpful if they did come back to something like journalism instead of propagangda - but that's a long way now). What are you talking about?


Regards,
Gerrit

... 3:26PM up 67 days, 2:21, 5 users, load averages: 1.30, 0.62, 0.50

--- msged/fbsd 6.3 2021-12-02
* Origin: And still they come and go (2:240/12)

Hello Gerrit Kuehn!

** On Sunday 13.03.22 - 15:26, Gerrit Kuehn wrote to alexander koryagin:

Meanwhile there is an obvious difference in the quality
and quantity of lies in orders of magnitude. Mr. Putin is
the most embarrassing leader of a country and the most
pathetic public liar I've seen in a very long time.

Watching Russia's Foreign Minster, Lavrov, in front of cameras
saying "we are not attacking anyone.." is like watching a sad
puppy.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

Hello Alan,

I am a strong supporter of free speech. People should decide

themselves.

I am also and yes people can and will decide for themselves. They will
make better fact based decisions if they have good facts to base their conclusions.

I would like to introduce to you my laws #15 and #17 on electronic communications ... maybe they need to be in a different set of laws, but here they are anyway ... both were inspired by mr.Putin already years ago...

#15
"A politician does not need to be honest, but effective"

#17
"Lying is an ultimate form of free speech"

And please, keep your acid-pot boiling...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

August,

Watching Russia's Foreign Minster, Lavrov, in front of cameras
saying "we are not attacking anyone.." is like watching a sad
puppy.

Actually ... maybe the propaganda has gotten to him too ... and he really believes it ...

Because if he consciously is lying, he is unfit for the foreign ministry. Nobody will want to deal with him, except people from other rogue states.

And if you need a reason why China is not really speaking out against Russia ... they themselves have plans to invade Taiwan, just like they did in Tibet and the world sat on its collective asses and did nothing ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello August!

13 Mar 22 12:10, August Abolins wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Watching Russia's Foreign Minster, Lavrov, in front of cameras
saying "we are not attacking anyone.." is like watching a sad
puppy.

Actually, this is quite reminiscent of Walter Ulbrich (former leader of the GDR). When being asked about the borders of a "free city" Berlin in June 1961, he answered that "no-one intends to build a wall". Guess what happened two months later...


Regards,
Gerrit

... 5:38PM up 67 days, 4:33, 5 users, load averages: 0.77, 0.57, 0.54

--- msged/fbsd 6.3 2021-12-02
* Origin: Tall orders to fulfil (2:240/12)

IIRC, there were 28 Australians on board as well others from various nationalities.

You are right, if you include your neighbours.

People on board by nationality: 

Nation Number

Netherlands 193
Malaysia 43
Australia 27
Indonesia 12
United Kingdom 10
Belgium 4
Germany 4
Philippines 3
Canada 1
New Zealand 1
Total 298



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

When Ukrainian side has shelled Donetsk
nobody can guarantee that the shells will not drop on the civilians.

When Russia has shelled civilian targets in Ukraine, it can be guaranteed that the shells will kill Russians living there, as well as their Ukrainian friends living nearby.

That's the problem with systematically target civilians, and why the civilized world will never tolerate war crimes like what Mad Vlad and his ilk are committing. Rest assured, there will be dire consequences...

BTW, what's the kill score so far?

Children living in Ukraine: 280
Children living in Russia: 0

Correct me if I'm wrong.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi! Björn,

On 03/14/2022 05:32 AM, you wrote:

IIRC, there were 28 Australians on board as well others from
various nationalities.

You are right, if you include your neighbours.

Thank you! Yes, but it was a hunch though. Since I have been 'all over the story' it seems some facts kinda stuck. ;)

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
* Origin: Vuja De - The feeling you've never been here before. (3:640/1384.125)

I would like to introduce to you my laws #15 and #17 on electronic communications ... maybe they need to be in a different set of laws, but here they are anyway ... both were inspired by mr.Putin already years ago...

#15
"A politician does not need to be honest, but effective"

To what effect?

#17
"Lying is an ultimate form of free speech"

Free speech means you can lie but lies not ultimate speech.

And please, keep your acid-pot boiling...

I have no acid, I only speak the truth.

If I were to mention that there was an agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine when Ukraine gave up it's nuclear weapons that the Russian Federation would never attack them that might seem acidic to one side.

How can we believe anything that Putin (or Russia) has to say?

In spite of that I am only speaking the unacidic truth.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Alexander,

I've took your answer as "I don't know about victims, but
they say on our TV that the maternity hospital was attacked
inhumanly".;)

Yeah, sure, given you want to go on blindfolded by Russian
propaganda. OTOH, you may take it as "They did proper fact
checks and along the way even discovered how Russian media produced
fake news from it.".

Both sides are lying, that why it is wrong to shut up one side only. And how
can you appreciate the fakes from the Russian media if they shut up?

It is quite easy to do. I'll let The Doctor explain, as he did so
well and eloquently with the Time Lord in charge on Gallifrey -

"Can you hear them? All these people who lived in terror of you and
your judgement. All these people who's ancestors devoted and sacrificed themselves to you. Can you hear them singing? Oh, you like to think
you're a god, but you're not a god. You're just a parasite eating out
the jealousy and envy and longing for the lives of others. You feed on
them. On the memory of love and lost and birth and death and joy and
sorrow. So, so come on then. Take mine. Take my memories. And I hope
you've got a big appetite because I have lived a long life and I have
seen a few things. I walked away from the last Great Time War. I marked
the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and
watched as time ran out. Moment by moment until nothing remained --
no time, no space, just me. I walked in universes where the laws of
physics where devised by the mind of a mad man. I watched universes
freeze and creations burn. I have seen things you wouldn't believe.
I have lost things you will never understand. And I know things.
Secrets that must never be told. Knowledge that must never be spoken.
Knowledge that will make parasite gods blaze. So come on then! Take it!
Take it all, baby! Have it! You have it all!"
~ Doctor Who

Rather than follow orders, the Doctor chose to become a deserter.
Even though the Daleks were seeking to eliminate his entire race.

Whose truth do you want to believe? The Protector, or the Deserter?

--Lee

--
It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

I've took your answer as "I don't know about victims, but
they say on our TV that the maternity hospital was attacked
inhumanly".;)

Yeah, sure, given you want to go on blindfolded by Russian
propaganda. OTOH, you may take it as "They did proper fact
checks and along the way even discovered how Russian media produced
fake news from it.".

Both sides are lying, that why it is wrong to shut up one side only. And how can you appreciate the fakes from the Russian media if they shut up?

Propaganda has limitations. That is why people choose to read/watch
other sources than what is told to them by Big Brother.

--Lee

--
We! Reject! The president-nonelect!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 13.03.2022 00:15

DP>>> Arkadiy Gaydar was an alcoholic, because he killed a lot of
DP>>> Russians during our civil war.

ak>> I don't know how these two things can be connected, but surely you
ak>> are too serious about my joke about Nuland's motives.

DP> My colleagues are under shelling in Ukraine, I am too serious.

Believe me or not but a friend of mine lives in Donetsk suburb.

DP> Gayday was drinking because he saw dead people in his dreams,
DP> people he killed in civil war. That's why he was drinking a lot.

When people drink a lot they see even green devils. ;-)

DP>>> Gaydar was part of propadanda during Stalin's repsessions agains
DP>>> Russian people. He was drinking a lot and spent some time in
DP>>> mental hospital because he was a child soldier.

ak>> IMHO, judging by the appearance and actions of his grandson, the
ak>> chief of economic reforms in Russia of 90s Egor Gaydar, there were
ak>> some genetic defects in their family.

DP> You sounds exactly like some Nazi, with "genetic defects" slogan.
DP> USSR collapse was a disaster and your are blaming Gaydar and not
DP> Stalin and Lenin, who created our state which was based on
DP> corruption and crazy ideas.

I don't like Erog Gaydar because people for him were like cattle. For
this reason he invented his famous economic chocking therapy. In China
reforms were slow and checked, and they gained success. In Russia the
reforms were tantamount to a catastrophe for all industry and most
people, well, except Muscovites. ;)

DP>>> Fake, Russia sent groups of fighters to DNR/LNR and invaded
DP>>> Crimea. Kharkiv never had any uprisings and now fighting with
DP>>> Russians forces, in fact it doing better in comparison with Nazi
DP>>> invasion in 1941.

ak>> Knarkiv had avoided that havoc due to the wise and independent
ak>> policy of its mayor, Kernes, AFAIR, who didn't allowed
ak>> nationalists to do everything the wanted. It was an exception
ak>> however.

DP> And now Kharkiv is paying a price. Beeing destroyed by Russians who
DP> are "protecting Russians".

I wish I could know whom the people of Kharkov are now afraid more --
their protectors or their defenders. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 13.03.2022 16:02

AI>>> Do you believe, or want me to believe that a few thousand people
AI>>> overthrough a popular leader and the rest just went along with
AI>>> that? No.

ak>> If a crowd has weapons and when the President doesn't want to
ak>> suppress them down with force. It is possible. And Yanukovich has
ak>> proved it. And Pitin and Lukashenko has learnt a lot.

AI> Putin has not learned even after his wars in Afghanistan and Syria
AI> (among others). He does not want to learn and is incapable of
AI> learning. He is a dictator.

At least I can say for sure that occupation of Ukraine has never been in
his plans. IMHO he declared his wishes about Ukraine clearly -- Ukraine
should stop war against Donbass (which is still be shelling every day),
and become a neutral country.

AI> I have to ask again. Do you believe, or want me to believe that a
AI> few thousand people overthrough a popular leader and the people of
AI> Ukraine just along with that? No.

I say you again -- it is possible. Bolsheviks in Russia made a very
limited size cope, but had captured the whole country. The people of the former USSSR as a rule admit all orders that come from the capital. Most country officials submit to new power under the threat of physical
reprisal.

AI> The people of Ukraine want to go in the direction of their
AI> choosing. They choose to go in the direction of the EU and NATO.
AI> The reasons for this are crytal clear today and I hope their choice
AI> will be realized.

If it were as in your head there would not war in Ukraine.

ak>> Well, imagine what would happen if the storming of the Capitol
ak>> would not be suppressed. As it was in Kiev in 2014 where the
ak>> parliamentarian would go to their work through the crowd, insults
ak>> and threats.

AI> The events of 2014 and 2020 are not the same. Not even the same
AI> continent.

ak>> It had been proved
AI> Really!? Now you are talking silly.

ak>> that this woman was brought there after the shelling.

Photos were done in completely other medical center and this girl
participated before in many other provocative photos also. This story
looks like an imitation of chemical attack in Syria when it was
bombarded afterwards. I suggest also to investigate the crashing of an attacking drone in Croatia launched from Ukraine. It is very possible
they hoped for many victims.

AI> The woman has since had her baby and is safe and sound. As safe as
AI> a person can be when under attack from bombs and missiles of a
AI> rogue state like the Russian Federation.
ak>> A propaganda in short.
AI> Propagana is a real thing I know. This is a real life story, a true
AI> story and there are many more.

I say it once again -- it is foolishess and shame to listen only one
side of the conflict. Don't forget, that the main slogan of Russia's
invasion is justice and stopping the war in Donbass. Russia is not going
to repeat infamous American invasion in Veitnam with carpet bombing,
where Americans killed millions of people and ran with it.

AI> The people of Russia now live in a constant state of propaganda.
AI> The government has outlawed the truth in Russia. This is not new
AI> but it has ramped up. Media outlets have closed up (or moved) shop
AI> rather than risk a 15 year jail term for using words like "war"
AI> or "invasion" even when appropriate.

For instance Euronews TV is on air in Russia. As for prohibition -- yes
the state propaganda does it business. But as well as Ukrainian
propaganda prohibits any positive news about Russian side. In the world
of adults it is called "information war".

AI> What the people get in Russia today is fake news with headlines and
AI> stories provided by the state.

I repeat -- the Russian stance is not a complete lie. And Ukrainian nationalists are not sinless angels. That why Putin propaganda works
well. Well, how to explain it -- suppose he speaks good and correct
words about WW2 and under this disguise he says wrong things.

<skipped>
ak>> It is complete wrong to shut up information from one side, even if
ak>> you don't agree with it.

AI> I will not shut up anything from any side.

Yes, nobody asked you when they shut up Russian media.

<skipped>
ak>> Reaction? After the UN has accepted 14 thousand killed in
ak>> Ukrainian Donbass siege nobody has said nothing about it.

AI> The situation in the Donbass is settled. We know what is happening
AI> there. The actions of Russian backed separatists has destablized
AI> the region.

It was Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who had destabilized Ukraine in
2014. Everything would have been peaceful and fine if that idiots would
not come to power with their nationalistic violence.

AI> Factoid: There are now in excess of 2,500,000 refugees caused by
AI> the Russian Federations war against Ukraine as the onslought
AI> continues against civilians on the ground. A large part of that
AI> number is now in Poland and countries west of Ukraine.

After 2014 Russia accepted more 2 million Ukrainian refugies mostly from Donbass.
https://tinyurl.com/yam46fsy (Google translation)
-----Beginning of the citation-----
Internally displaced persons in Ukraine (since 2014) are internally
displaced persons in the country who migrated from the territory of the
ATO zone (armed conflict in eastern Ukraine), they also include migrants
from Crimea, which was annexed to the Russian Federation in
February-March 2014.

According to the statement of the official representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry Maria Zakharova, the total number of Ukrainian citizens
in Russia as of March 16, 2017 is 2 million 300 thousand 320 people, of
which more than a million are refugees from Donbass[1].

On June 15, 2016, Deputy Minister for the Occupied Territories and
Internally Displaced Persons Georgiy Tuka stated that the real number of
IDPs from Donbass is about 800,000, according to an independent study conducted by international organizations[2]. At the same time, according
to the Ministry of Social Policy, the number of registered migrants is
more than 1.7 million people (as of February 1, 2016). Of this number,
more than 714 thousand families applied for state financial assistance,
which was assigned to more than 669 thousand families[2][3].
----- The end of the citation -----

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
I read your message from 13.03.2022 22:42

BF> BTW, what's the kill score so far?
BF> Children living in Ukraine: 280
BF> Children living in Russia: 0

Well how many children were in those 14 thousand killed in Donbass by Ukrainian troops? Thousands probably. What is going on is just a logical continuation of the war started in 2014. The main blame should be put on
those who didn't want to make peace for these 8 years. They probably
hoped to cut the rebels throats and get bingo.

What has changed? Well, for 8 years has suffered those who lived in
Donbass. Now many Ukrainians themselves feel the same horror. Probably
it makes to understand what horror they did in Donbass.

PS: And I repeat again and again, I consider Putin's operation as crazy
and unclever. But I just say to you again -- try not dissolve the reason
of the conflict in Ukraine in the person of Putin.

Bye, Bj?rn!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, August Abolins!
I read your message from 13.03.2022 19:10

GK>> Meanwhile there is an obvious difference in the quality
GK>> and quantity of lies in orders of magnitude. Mr. Putin is
GK>> the most embarrassing leader of a country and the most
GK>> pathetic public liar I've seen in a very long time.
AA> Watching Russia's Foreign Minster, Lavrov, in front of cameras
AA> saying "we are not attacking anyone.." is like watching a sad
AA> puppy.

IMHO everybody in Russia, I believe Lavrov including, were sure that
the building up Russian army near Ukrainian border was just play of
muscles to prevent Ukraine from solving Donbass war forcefully. It was
true and obvious that Ukraine concentrated big forces in the Donetsk
region this winter. A big part of escalation is also lies on the
Ukrainian side.

Nobody can answer why Putin had decided that the military strike would
be the best solution. Probably after successful suppressing the riot in Kazakhstan he started to felt himself a big strategist. And there was no
one next to say him clever words. ;-\

Bye, August!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 13.03.2022 19:36

WD> Actually ... maybe the propaganda has gotten to him too ... and
WD> he really believes it ... Because if he consciously is lying,
WD> he is unfit for the foreign ministry. Nobody will want to deal
WD> with him, except people from other rogue states. And if you
WD> need a reason why China is not really speaking out against Russia ...
WD> they themselves have plans to invade Taiwan, just like they did in
WD> Tibet and the world sat on its collective asses and did nothing
WD> ...

Taiwan Chinese are not such idiots as Ukrainian nationalists. Its enough
to not provoke the beast and everything will be OK.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Putin has not learned even after his wars in Afghanistan and Syria
(among others). He does not want to learn and is incapable of
learning. He is a dictator.

At least I can say for sure that occupation of Ukraine has never been in
his plans.

No, it is simply a military invasion. He has attacked the whole country. He is not protecting anyone. Not in the Donbass region or anywhere else. He has invaded a peaceful and sovereign nation.

IMHO he declared his wishes about Ukraine clearly -- Ukraine
should stop war against Donbass (which is still be shelling every day),
and become a neutral country.

I have already expressed to you that the problem in the Donbass region is separatists. Russian backed (armed) separatists. The issue is not ultra nationalists. Well maybe it is, Russian ultra nationalists in Ukraine.

Yes, there is daily shelling in the Donbass region and everywhere in Ukraine today by the Russian military. Russian bombing/shelling is killing many in Ukraine, Russian and Ukrainian speakers alike.

Whatever the issues and solutions are in the Donbass region it is a Ukrainian problem. The Russian Federation need not amass ~200,000 troops on the Ukraine border and invade that peaceful sovereign nation with it's military.

I can only hope that makes sense to you.

I say you again -- it is possible.

It is not possible and it did not happen in this case regardless of Putin's wish list.

The people of the former USSSR as a rule admit all orders that come from the capital.

That is the case. For better or for worse.

Most country officials submit to new power under the threat of physical reprisal.

The Russian military did not come to Ukraine for a friendly visit. They went there to bark orders and expected the population to comply and offer flowers.

Of course that didn't happen. Did you or the leaders of your country really expect it would happen? Of course not.

Photos were done in completely other medical center and this girl participated before in many other provocative photos also.

Really!? You are going to have to come up with something better than "participated before in many other provocative photos also" if you want me to believe anything you have to say.

I say it once again -- it is foolishess and shame to listen only one
side of the conflict.

I am not listening to one side only. I am listening to you and you want to tell me that "a few thousand people overthrough a popular leader" and "this girl...".

Don't forget, that the main slogan of Russia's invasion is justice and stopping the war in Donbass.

There is no justice in this war, none.

Russia is not going to repeat infamous American invasion in Veitnam with carpet bombing, where Americans killed millions of people and ran with it.

I guess you have lost the argument at this point so you want to bring up Vietnam.

The people of Russia now live in a constant state of propaganda.
The government has outlawed the truth in Russia. This is not new
but it has ramped up. Media outlets have closed up (or moved) shop
rather than risk a 15 year jail term for using words like "war"
or "invasion" even when appropriate.

For instance Euronews TV is on air in Russia. As for prohibition -- yes
the state propaganda does it business. But as well as Ukrainian
propaganda prohibits any positive news about Russian side.

I have not even heard of Euronews. From what I can tell at a glance it is a british site with a Russian speaking arm out of France. It is not Russian by a long shot.

In the world of adults it is called "information war".

No, what is happening inside Russia today has no resemblance to information. Lack of information perhaps.

What the people get in Russia today is fake news with headlines and
stories provided by the state.

This is what you have in Russia today.

I repeat -- the Russian stance is not a complete lie. And Ukrainian nationalists are not sinless angels.

Nationalism can be problematical. I will give you that.

That why Putin propaganda works well.

It does? Define works well.

It was Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who had destabilized Ukraine in
2014. Everything would have been peaceful and fine if that idiots would
not come to power with their nationalistic violence.

You sure want to get your milage out of ultra-nationalists and Donbass.

https://tinyurl.com/yam46fsy (Google translation)

This is not a translation, it is a russian wikipedia site.

Wikipedia can be very good, and it can be very bad.

I don't see any refugee's heading to Russia. By and large they are leaving through Poland and onwards. Very few if any are heading toward Russia.

I just read an article in the washigton post from 2019 that 20% of the population in Russia want to leave with Germany and the USA being the places to go. I wonder what the situation is in 2022?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Well how many children were in those 14 thousand killed in Donbass by Ukrainian troops? Thousands probably.

WOW! Do you really believe that?



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

It was Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who had destabilized Ukraine in
2014. Everything would have been peaceful and fine if that idiots would
not come to power with their nationalistic violence.

https://youtu.be/wgyTjZtILeQ

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Alexander,

Taiwan Chinese are not such idiots as Ukrainian nationalists. Its enough
to not provoke the beast and everything will be OK.

So in what way did Tibet provoke the beast in order to be invaded by China's military force?

Make no mistake ... Taiwan is not being invaded (yet) because of the large support by the west, in particular the US.

Ukraine should have been immediately included in NATO and EU in 2014/2015 ... of course, that's with hind vision.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
I read your message from 14.03.2022 12:40

ak>> Well how many children were in those 14 thousand killed in
ak>> Donbass by Ukrainian troops? Thousands probably.
BF> WOW! Do you really believe that?

Those people were killed as a rule in discriminate bombardments and the
number of 14 thousand is accepted in the UN documents. So why you don't believe that a good part of these victims were children?

Also in this way you can estimate how many children had been killed by
the US and NATO during invasions in Iraq (by ridiculously false
propaganda ground), Afghanistan, Yugoslavia.... What's wrong with it?

Bye, Bj?rn!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 14.03.2022 12:54

ak>> It was Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who had destabilized Ukraine
ak>> in 2014. Everything would have been peaceful and fine if that
ak>> idiots would not come to power with their nationalistic violence.

AI> https://youtu.be/wgyTjZtILeQ

A terrible war. But they said in the clip that the people left the city
before it was stormed. But those who is being shelled now in Donetsk
live in their homes. Look at the BBC report.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPxDdGePBP8&ab_channel=%D0%A2%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BBATR


Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

https://youtu.be/wgyTjZtILeQ

A terrible war.

It is a terrible war. Peoples lives are being destroyed for no good reason. People who have no connection to ultra-nationalists or the donbass region.

Not to mention the dead and injured, all without any connection to ultra-nationalist or the Donbass. People keep pouring out of Ukraine in an attempt to save whatever is left now.

But they said in the clip that the people left the city
before it was stormed. But those who is being shelled now in Donetsk
live in their homes. Look at the BBC report.

The issue is not that people left before the bombardment, I hope they all got out with their lives and can somehow find a way to continue on without their city and life they have known.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPxDdGePBP8&ab_channel=%D0%A2%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B
%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BBATR

I can only view this video, I can't understand what is being said and there is no text to translate.

You may have had the same issue with the link I provided you. I hope you were able to understand what was being said in the link I provided.

No war.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Ward,

Taiwan Chinese are not such idiots as Ukrainian nationalists. Its
enough to not provoke the beast and everything will be OK.

So in what way did Tibet provoke the beast in order to be invaded by China's
military force?

The Dalai Lama chose a different successor than the Chinese version.

Make no mistake ... Taiwan is not being invaded (yet) because of the large support by the west, in particular the US.

Taiwan is just a mite on a chessboard. If China chooses to use military
force to invade Taiwan, it would win in a matter of days. If the USA
decides to defend Taiwan, things will go nuclear. How limited a nuclear exchange would be is anybody's guess.

Ukraine should have been immediately included in NATO and EU in 2014/2015 ... of course, that's with hind vision.

If NATO gets involved in Ukraine, Russia would be squashed.

As things turned out, President Barack Obama decided to impose
limited sanctions on Russia rather than send US troops to Ukraine.
At the time, Ukraine only had some 5,000 soldiers, most of them
poorly equipped and having no military experience.

What we saw in 2014 was the beginning of WWIII. The current situation
is an escalated continuation of that war.

Of course, we all know how that war ends ...

--Lee

--
It takes a tough man to make a tender chicken

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

Well how many children were in those 14 thousand killed in Donbass by
Ukrainian troops? Thousands probably.

WOW! Do you really believe that?

It was a rescue operation. Where else do you think the Pied Piper took
those children of Hamelin?

--Lee

--
Donald Trump! Go away! Racist, sexist, anti-gay!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Monday March 14 2022 08:26, you wrote to me:

My colleagues are under shelling in Ukraine, I am too serious.

Believe me or not but a friend of mine lives in Donetsk suburb.

Could you please ask him why Russia was always against inviting peace-keeping forces to DNR/LNR?

Gayday was drinking because he saw dead people in his dreams,
people he killed in civil war. That's why he was drinking a lot.

When people drink a lot they see even green devils. ;-)

But not of them spent years killing Russians.

I don't like Erog Gaydar because people for him were like cattle. For
this reason he invented his famous economic chocking therapy. In China

USSR was already in free fall during his time in government.

reforms were slow and checked, and they gained success. In Russia the

In China they invited western companies in eary 80s. They allowed them to have their own management.
In early 90s it was too late to invite anyone to Russia, it was a bankrupted country, unable to buy food.

NATO was sending us food from West Berlin's military warehouses, it was a nightmare.
Do you remember Pavlov, who was doing reforms before Gaydar? And his "bright" ideas?

reforms were tantamount to a catastrophe for all industry and most
people, well, except Muscovites. ;)

So why you are not blaming Brezhnev? Food vouchers started to appear in USSR in late 70s. It was a time for radical reforms.
But they did nothing.

And now Kharkiv is paying a price. Beeing destroyed by Russians
who are "protecting Russians".

I wish I could know whom the people of Kharkov are now afraid more -- their protectors or their defenders. ;-)

They are afraid because Russia invaded Ukraine started to shell cities.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Monday March 14 2022 10:17, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

Taiwan Chinese are not such idiots as Ukrainian nationalists. Its
enough to not provoke the beast and everything will be OK.

Taiwan is ready to protect it's land. I've been there 2 years ago - army and air forces are training every day.
They even treat part of Chinese territory as ADIZ (air defense identification zone), nothing like this happened in Ukraine.

But who is ready an idiot - is Putin. No preparation for war at all! Ecomomy is starting to collapse - no reserves, prices are skyrocketing, impossible to buy some drugs already.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Monday March 14 2022 09:56, you wrote to Bj?rn Felten:

logical continuation of the war started in 2014. The main blame should
be put on those who didn't want to make peace for these 8 years. They

Russia? It was our project, we've sent military aid and people there.
DNR/LNR were puppet states.

What has changed? Well, for 8 years has suffered those who lived in Donbass. Now many Ukrainians themselves feel the same horror. Probably
it makes to understand what horror they did in Donbass.

So Russian cities should be bombed because our participation in war in Syria? Ukraine had military conflict with Russia as one of the players on it's territory.

Without Russian's military help the whole DNR/LNR project was nothing.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Monday March 14 2022 09:35, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

At least I can say for sure that occupation of Ukraine has never been
in his plans. IMHO he declared his wishes about Ukraine clearly --

You cannot be sure about that. Puting officaly annonced that Ukraine is some artifical creature, without rights to exist.

Ukraine should stop war against Donbass (which is still be shelling
every day), and become a neutral country.

You cannot be neutral country if you have foreign forces on your land.

I say you again -- it is possible. Bolsheviks in Russia made a very limited size cope, but had captured the whole country. The people of

They captured country only after long civil war.

Photos were done in completely other medical center and this girl participated before in many other provocative photos also. This story

Already checked by independent media:

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/03/12/definitely-not-staged

I say it once again -- it is foolishess and shame to listen only one
side of the conflict. Don't forget, that the main slogan of Russia's invasion is justice and stopping the war in Donbass. Russia is not

This slogan is fake. Just another lie by Putin.

going to repeat infamous American invasion in Veitnam with carpet
bombing, where Americans killed millions of people and ran with it.

In Vietnam it was Viet Cong who tried to capture South Vietnam by military force.
USA was protecting it, like they in Korea.

I know personally some vietnamese from south who were able to run away from Vietnamese and escaped communist's concentration camps.
The whole communist ideology was a disaster for humankind!

For instance Euronews TV is on air in Russia. As for prohibition --

No, it was banned from air in 2017.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Dmitry Protasoff!

** On Tuesday 08.03.22 - 16:53, Dmitry Protasoff wrote:

Russians already leaving Russia in big numbers, although
we don't have any war inside our territory.

I would imagine that some Russians are fed up with Putin's
empty promises for a properous country. His recent actions are
simply sinking the country back several decades economically.
But wouldn't Russia make it difficult for the average citizen
(especially from the deep interior) to emigrate?

It takes a lot of guts and "enough-is-enough"s to just leave a
whole life behind and leave the only home country that one may
have ever known.

Russia is doing a piss-poor job promoting itself as a dream
destination.
--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)

So why you don't
believe that a good part of these victims were children?

I don't believe that Ukrainians would shell their own citizens. Has the Ministry of Truth in Kremlin told you who provided those alleged shelling weapons to the Ukrainian military. eBay perhaps? Or maybe it is all a DumbAss News hoax?



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, August!

Monday March 14 2022 11:35, you wrote to me:

I would imagine that some Russians are fed up with Putin's
empty promises for a properous country. His recent actions are

Yes, it's very difficult to make any plans if you can't be sure about your future.
Tomorrow he'll start new war with Lithuania, Poland or Moldova and economy will crush again.

simply sinking the country back several decades economically.
But wouldn't Russia make it difficult for the average citizen
(especially from the deep interior) to emigrate?

Yes, now it's impossible to buy euro/dollars officially, only black market works.
Strict limits for cash if you traveling abroad, strict limits for wire transfers from Russia.

But you can still emigrate, because our state doesn't want to keep people who are immune to propaganda inside our borders.

It takes a lot of guts and "enough-is-enough"s to just leave a
whole life behind and leave the only home country that one may
have ever known.

Eventually ,people are thinking more and more about life of their children. And some places in the world (EU, USA) are more stable and safe for them.
Not everyone is happy that their sons will go to some new war.

Russia is doing a piss-poor job promoting itself as a dream
destination.

Oh yeah! :)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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Hello Dmitry,

I would imagine that some Russians are fed up with Putin's
empty promises for a properous country. His recent actions are

Yes, it's very difficult to make any plans if you can't be sure about your future.

Russia has lost 10 million people, mostly young women of childbearing
age, due to emigration over the past ten years. I do not believe many
of them will be returning to Russia anytime soon.

Tomorrow he'll start new war with Lithuania, Poland or Moldova and economy will crush again.

If NATO gets involved, it will squash Russia like a bug. Lithuania
is a member of NATO. So is Poland. Moldova (and Kosovo) have applied
for membership.

simply sinking the country back several decades economically.
But wouldn't Russia make it difficult for the average citizen
(especially from the deep interior) to emigrate?

Yes, now it's impossible to buy euro/dollars officially, only black market works.

Distancing itself from the rest of the world is not a viable solution.
The world economy is too interconnected, and any country that tries to
do it alone is doomed to failure.

Strict limits for cash if you traveling abroad, strict limits for wire transfers from Russia.

Not a problem if one has no plans to return to Russia. Such as
thousands of Russian tourists now stranded in Thailand due to no
flights being available to fly them home. And Ukrainians stuck
in Thailand have no desire to return home, assuming they even have
a home to return to.

But you can still emigrate, because our state doesn't want to keep people who are immune to propaganda inside our borders.

Beaches in Thailand are fun places to be in times like these.

It takes a lot of guts and "enough-is-enough"s to just leave a
whole life behind and leave the only home country that one may
have ever known.

Eventually ,people are thinking more and more about life of their children.
And some places in the world (EU, USA) are more stable and safe for them. Not everyone is happy that their sons will go to some new war.

War is hell. For both adults and children alike. No matter where
someone is from.

Russia is doing a piss-poor job promoting itself as a dream
destination.

Oh yeah! :)

There was Sochi a few years ago ...

--Lee

--
Education not deportation!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dmitry,

[..]

going to repeat infamous American invasion in Veitnam with carpet
bombing, where Americans killed millions of people and ran with it.

In Vietnam it was Viet Cong who tried to capture South Vietnam by military force. USA was protecting it, like they in Korea.

There are a few holes in that story. S. Vietnam President Diem was assassinated, and replaced with JFK's choice. The North Vietnamese had
two armies - the North Vietnamese Army (which was a regular army) and
the Viet Cong (which were volunteers/terrorists/whatever you want to
call them).

The USA was not protecting the people of Vietnam, but the companies
benefitting and profiting from resources in Vietnam. Lots of oil in
those parts.

This was McNamara's War (who was in charge of the Departmnt of Defense
at the time). JFK most likely would have withdrawn US troops from
Vietnam had he not been assassinated in November, 1963. LBJ is the
guy who sent in US combat troops, using a fake Gulf of Tonkin
incident to justify his actions.

The USA won the "war in Vietnam" - which is called the American War
by Vietnamese. The problem was the S. Vietnamese officers were paid
in US dollars, and the privates were trained by the French. When the
N. Vietnamese made their final advance, the S. Vietnamese officers
bought their way to safety, and the privates fled into the hills.
A few were able to make it to safety by finding a boat, or climb onto
the roof of the US embassy in Saigon.

I know personally some vietnamese from south who were able to run away from
Vietnamese and escaped communist's concentration camps.

I personally know the daughter of the president of S. Vietnam.
She ran a convenience store, while her father owned a shrimp boat.
This was after Vietnam was united as one country, rather than
being split into two parts.

The whole communist ideology was a disaster for humankind!

It is the same people, not divided by ideology. Even in today's
Vietnam, communism as an ideology is a fiction.

What existed in the former USSR was not communism, but a cult.
First the Bolsheviks, led by Lenin. One could call it Leninism.
Then by Stalin, or Stalinism. Gorbachev decided not to play that
game any more, and that era finally came to a close.

For instance Euronews TV is on air in Russia. As for prohibition --

No, it was banned from air in 2017.

The Russian Orthodox Church is not banned. And the Patriarch
of Moscow is still allowed to say anything he wants.

--Lee

--
Not my president!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

So why you don't
believe that a good part of these victims were children?

I don't believe that Ukrainians would shell their own citizens. Has the Ministry of Truth in Kremlin told you who provided those alleged shelling weapons to the Ukrainian military. eBay perhaps? Or maybe it is all a DumbAss News hoax?

I am sure Alexander and other Russians get their news from the
Russian Orthodox Church, whose spokesperson is the Patriarch of
Moscow. I posted an English translation of his explanation of
what is going on in Ukraine, with cited link. It is not a long
read, and very easy to understand.

--Lee

--
We! Reject! The president-nonelect!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 14.03.2022 14:18

AI>>>> https://youtu.be/wgyTjZtILeQ
ak>> A terrible war.
AI> It is a terrible war. Peoples lives are being destroyed for no
AI> good reason. People who have no connection to
AI> ultra-nationalists or the donbass region. Not to mention the
AI> dead and injured, all without any connection to ultra-nationalist or
AI> the Donbass. People keep pouring out of Ukraine in an attempt to save
AI> whatever is left now.

It would be strange if they stay in the fighting areas. As for shelling civilians I would suggest to you to watch video at the end of this
message. Ukrainian nationlists has never shamed to do such things in
Donbass.

ak>> But they said in the clip that the people left the city
ak>> before it was stormed. But those who is being shelled now
ak>> in Donetsk live in their homes. Look at the BBC report.
AI> The issue is not that people left before the bombardment, I
AI> hope they all got out with their lives and can somehow find a
AI> way to continue on without their city and life they have
AI> known.
??>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPxDdGePBP8&ab_channel=%
??>> D0%A2%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B %D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BBATR
AI> I can only view this video, I can't understand what is being
AI> said and there is no text to translate. You may have had the
AI> same issue with the link I provided you. I hope you were able
AI> to understand what was being said in the link I provided. No
AI> war.

Well look at another yesterday video -- it is also doesn't demand your language skills. https://ru.euronews.com/2022/03/14/ukraine-topstory-monday-update

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 14.03.2022 16:14

LL> What we saw in 2014 was the beginning of WWIII. The current
LL> situation is an escalated continuation of that war.
LL> Of course, we all know how that war ends ...

An achievable compromise with Russian speaking areas in Ukraine is very possible if the Ukrainian nationalists not act as a dull ram before the
new gate. Both nations in Ukraine should have the same rights and it is
only just.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 14.03.2022 16:39

DP>>> My colleagues are under shelling in Ukraine, I am too serious.
ak>> Believe me or not but a friend of mine lives in Donetsk suburb.

DP> Could you please ask him why Russia was always against inviting
DP> peace-keeping forces to DNR/LNR?

It because Ukraine is against Russian participation in these forces.
Ukraine is afraid that Russia will separate fighting sides in honest. ;)

DP>>> Gayday was drinking because he saw dead people in his dreams,
DP>>> people he killed in civil war. That's why he was drinking a lot.

ak>> When people drink a lot they see even green devils.

DP> But not of them spent years killing Russians.

You are wrong when speaking so about Russian Civil War after Revolution
1917. The matter was not in nationalities. During that years often
brother fought with brother.

<skipped>

DP> In China they invited western companies in eary 80s. They allowed
DP> them to have their own management. In early 90s it was too late to
DP> invite anyone to Russia, it was a bankrupted country, unable to buy
DP> food.

Not correct. Every country who wanted it has got high-tech industry. My hard-drivers and other computer parts were made in barefooted Thailand, Indonesia etc -- no reason to exclude Russia from the possible places
for such factories. The problem was in other place -- the swindlers in
power wanted to grab the state factories for nothing and suck from them.
But only the state could support such big plants and they quickly
collapsed. No ground and conditions for new plants and initiatives was
created by Gaydar.

DP> NATO was sending us food from West Berlin's military warehouses, it
DP> was a nightmare. Do you remember Pavlov, who was doing reforms
DP> before Gaydar? And his "bright" ideas?

Anyway the reforms should have been gradual and checked. They should
keep the existing industry, but create the ground for new plants and factories. It was done in China.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 14.03.2022 16:57

ak>> logical continuation of the war started in 2014. The main blame
ak>> should be put on those who didn't want to make peace for these 8
ak>> years. They

DP> Russia? It was our project, we've sent military aid and people
DP> there. DNR/LNR were puppet states.

Ukraine authority has told many times that the autonomy of Donbass and
amnesty for rebels will never be despite these things are in the Minsk agreements. That's why the conflict has lasted so long.

ak>> What has changed? Well, for 8 years has suffered those who lived
ak>> in Donbass. Now many Ukrainians themselves feel the same horror.
ak>> Probably it makes to understand what horror they did in Donbass.

DP> So Russian cities should be bombed because our participation in war
DP> in Syria? Ukraine had military conflict with Russia as one of the
DP> players on it's territory.

You should understand a simple thing, that there are countries which can
be bombed -- like Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan etc, but there are
countries which cannot be bombed because of their nuclear umbrella. And
in making your offensive policy you need be cautious in relations with
the later. It is natural as human relations. If you see a strong man you
will be polite with him. Correct? ;)

DP> Without Russian's military help the whole DNR/LNR project was
DP> nothing.

Ukraine is doomed as a whole country if Ukrainan nationalists continue
their aggressive ukrainization.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 14.03.2022 16:58

ak>> At least I can say for sure that occupation of Ukraine has never
ak>> been in his plans. IMHO he declared his wishes about Ukraine
ak>> clearly --

DP> You cannot be sure about that. Puting officaly annonced that
DP> Ukraine is some artifical creature, without rights to exist.

He never told the last statement -- you are lying badly. Even if I don't
like Putin I should say it. ;-)

ak>> Ukraine should stop war against Donbass (which is still be
ak>> shelling every day), and become a neutral country.

DP> You cannot be neutral country if you have foreign forces on your
DP> land.

Well - look at this in the following way -- no country has a guarantee
is will exists for ever. When gross mistakes are committed by the state authority the country can easily collapse and separate. And it will be
useless to strike with your bald spot against the floor.

So, to preserve your country you should lead a wise, peaceful, fair
policy for all the people in your country. In this case your country
will be safe and whole.

<skipped>

ak>> For instance Euronews TV is on air in Russia. As for
ak>> prohibition --

DP> No, it was banned from air in 2017.

Not true -- in is on air in Moscow in the third multiplex on channel 34.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
I read your message from 14.03.2022 20:23

ak>> So why you don't
ak>> believe that a good part of these victims were children?
BF> I don't believe that Ukrainians would shell their own
BF> citizens. Has the Ministry of Truth in Kremlin told you who
BF> provided those alleged shelling weapons to the Ukrainian
BF> military. eBay perhaps? Or maybe it is all a DumbAss News hoax?
BF> ..

Especially for you I repeat URL

https://ru.euronews.com/2022/03/14/ukraine-topstory-monday-update

Yesterday's shelling of Donetsk with a very powerful missle.


Bye, Bj?rn!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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It would be strange if they stay in the fighting areas. As for shelling civilians I would suggest to you to watch video at the end of this
message.

It would be strange if they left. They are fighting because they were invaded by Russia, not because they choose a war. They are not going to surrender, why would they?

Ukrainian nationlists has never shamed to do such things in Donbass.

Still on about nationalists and Donbass?

Well look at another yesterday video -- it is also doesn't demand your language skills. https://ru.euronews.com/2022/03/14/ukraine-topstory-monday-update

Very uninformative but thanks anyway.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

An achievable compromise with Russian speaking areas in Ukraine is very possible if the Ukrainian nationalists not act as a dull ram before the
new gate. Both nations in Ukraine should have the same rights and it is
only just.

Dull ram before the new gate? Both nations in Ukraine?

What are you talking about? There are not both nations in Ukraine, there is just Ukraine.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday March 15 2022 09:40, you wrote to me:

You cannot be sure about that. Puting officaly annonced that
Ukraine is some artifical creature, without rights to exist.

He never told the last statement -- you are lying badly. Even if I
don't like Putin I should say it. ;-)

Is it a joke?

https://tass.ru/politika/13791307

Sounds like you don't listen carefully to your president.

You cannot be neutral country if you have foreign forces on your
land.

Well - look at this in the following way -- no country has a guarantee
is will exists for ever. When gross mistakes are committed by the
state authority the country can easily collapse and separate. And it
will be useless to strike with your bald spot against the floor.

If you have massive invasion of foreign forces as it happend with Ukraine - yes.
You are just trying to find explanation why invaded this country.

So, to preserve your country you should lead a wise, peaceful, fair
policy for all the people in your country. In this case your country
will be safe and whole.

But if you have crazy madman dictator nearby - it won't help.

No, it was banned from air in 2017.

Not true -- in is on air in Moscow in the third multiplex on channel
34.

Only in Moscow, it's banned in rest of Russia in 2017.
And the only reason it's there - because our state is a shareholder.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!


Tuesday March 15 2022 09:27, you wrote to me:

Russia? It was our project, we've sent military aid and people
there. DNR/LNR were puppet states.

Ukraine authority has told many times that the autonomy of Donbass and
amnesty for rebels will never be despite these things are in the
Minsk agreements. That's why the conflict has lasted so long.

Conflict lasted so long because Putin wanted it to exists.
Even people who were sent from Russia to DNR/LNR in 2014 to start war they are famous and well known.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin

So Russian cities should be bombed because our participation in
war in Syria? Ukraine had military conflict with Russia as one
of the players on it's territory.

You should understand a simple thing, that there are countries which
can be bombed -- like Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan etc, but there are

So you trying to tell me that Putin decided to cosplay USA but forgot to buy enough drugs for pharmacies? :)

countries which cannot be bombed because of their nuclear umbrella.

We had military conflicts between India and Pakistan, they both had nuclear weapons.

And in making your offensive policy you need be cautious in relations
with the later. It is natural as human relations. If you see a strong
man you will be polite with him. Correct? ;)

But you don't have to give him money. That's why Russia now is in such deep shit.

Without Russian's military help the whole DNR/LNR project was
nothing.

Ukraine is doomed as a whole country if Ukrainan nationalists continue
their aggressive ukrainization.

They don't have any nationalists parties in Parlament if you don't know.
So they don't have any political power.

Try to compare that with Putin's support to multiple far-right parties in Europe. We even pay them and invite to Russian events.
Or is it "another story"? :)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday March 15 2022 09:11, you wrote to me:

Could you please ask him why Russia was always against inviting
peace-keeping forces to DNR/LNR?

It because Ukraine is against Russian participation in these forces. Ukraine is afraid that Russia will separate fighting sides in honest.
;)

Russia couldn't be peacekeeping force there, because it's actually part of the conflict.
And Russia never wanted this conflict to stop, that's why it never allowed any external forces.

But not of them spent years killing Russians.

You are wrong when speaking so about Russian Civil War after
Revolution 1917. The matter was not in nationalities. During that
years often brother fought with brother.

No one forced Gaidar to go and kill anyone. It was his own decision.

In China they invited western companies in eary 80s. They
allowed them to have their own management. In early 90s it was
too late to invite anyone to Russia, it was a bankrupted
country, unable to buy food.

Not correct. Every country who wanted it has got high-tech industry.
My hard-drivers and other computer parts were made in barefooted
Thailand, Indonesia etc -- no reason to exclude Russia from the

They are made by western companies.

possible places for such factories. The problem was in other place --

No, it was not possible to have western company in USSR with their own management.
It was against the law. And they were not allowed to export produced goods and get their revenues in hard currency.

You just don't know how Soviet economy was working with foreign companies.

the swindlers in power wanted to grab the state factories for nothing
and suck from them. But only the state could support such big plants

They were very low-tech. And as I wrote before - no one wanted to buy soviet computers and modems - that's why those industries collapsed.
The same for other stuff.

and they quickly collapsed. No ground and conditions for new plants
and initiatives was created by Gaydar.

Gaidar was in government from 11.1991 till 12.1992.
Just 1 year. Soviet/Russian economy in late 91 was collapsing - long queues for food, shortage of everything, USSR canot pay in hard currency to anyone.
His task was to create new market economy, not a single western company was crazy enough to invest in Russia during that period.

This economy still exists in Russia, btw.

NATO was sending us food from West Berlin's military warehouses,
it was a nightmare. Do you remember Pavlov, who was doing
reforms before Gaydar? And his "bright" ideas?

Anyway the reforms should have been gradual and checked. They should
keep the existing industry, but create the ground for new plants and factories. It was done in China.

No, in China they allowed western companres a lot.
No one in USSR was ready to do that. We were enemies with USA and Western Europe, with war in Afghanistan.

First western companies arrived in China in 1982. At this time we had Andropov in power who were threating to nuclear strike NATO forces in Europe.
Looks like you've missed chinese history of XX century a bit ;)

Best regards,
dp.

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���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 14.03.22 23:52:

What are you talking about? There are not both nations in Ukraine,
there is just Ukraine.

Of course you know better, you live there..

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
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���ண� �६�窠, Lee Lofaso.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 1:15:

If NATO gets involved, it will squash Russia like a bug. Lithuania
is a member of NATO. So is Poland. Moldova (and Kosovo) have
applied for membership.

I wouldn't be so sure about such statements. If the northern alliance pulls out, a preemptive strike will be launched against all firing points simultaneously. Our missiles are dozens of times faster, and no one has ever been able to intercept them. What are you talking about? NATO has been looking for our submarines for two weeks...;)


--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
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What are you talking about? There are not both nations in Ukraine,
there is just Ukraine.

Of course you know better, you live there..

If you live there then you tell us. Is it one nation? Is it two nations? Is it three nations? Is it four nations?

Do tell.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

I wouldn't be so sure about such statements. If the northern alliance pulls out, a preemptive strike will be launched against all firing points simultaneously. Our missiles are dozens of times faster, and no one has ever been able to intercept them. What are you talking about? NATO has been looking for our submarines for two weeks...;)

Putins invasion of Ukraine has united NATO like it has never been united before. I don't ever remember NATO being as united as they are now. I don't think that was Putins plan but that is what he has accomplished.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 3:00:

If you live there then you tell us. Is it one nation? Is it two
nations? Is it three nations? Is it four nations?

As least - two. Russians an ucranians. Both is Slavs. Different languages are spoken. And so some have decided that others (Russians) no longer have the right to speak their language. If you say a word - to the wall!

--
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���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 3:06:

Putins invasion of Ukraine has united NATO like it has never been
united before. I don't ever remember NATO being as united as they
are now. I don't think that was Putins plan but that is what he
has accomplished.

We'll see, we'll see (Russian proverb).

Do you know why the UN decided that this was an internal Russian affair?

--
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If you live there then you tell us. Is it one nation? Is it two
nations? Is it three nations? Is it four nations?

As least - two. Russians an ucranians. Both is Slavs. Different languages are spoken. And so some have decided that others (Russians) no longer have the right to speak their language. If you say a word - to the wall!

You are deeply confused. There are two languages there, not two nations.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

We'll see, we'll see (Russian proverb).

We will see, that is a fact.

Do you know why the UN decided that this was an internal Russian affair?

What!?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 3:39:

You are deeply confused. There are two languages there, not two
nations.

Yeah? And Estonians and Russians with different languages, where Russian is also de jure banned, are also one?

--
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���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 3:41:

We'll see, we'll see (Russian proverb).

We will see, that is a fact.

Not yet.

What!?

Be patient and pay close attention ;)

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
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You are deeply confused. There are two languages there, not two
nations.

Yeah? And Estonians and Russians with different languages, where Russian is also de jure banned,

How do you feel that Russian is Banned?

Russian is taught in Russian schools. Are you surpised that Estonians teach their language in their schools or that Ukrainians teach Ukrainian in their schools or that we teach english here in our schools?

are also one?

Estonia is one nation. Ukraine is another. Russia is another. Peiople in various countries may or may not speak the same language. Language is not a border issue. Here in Canada we have two official languages, english and french and there are more languages spoken here including russian and ukrainian.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

We will see, that is a fact.

Not yet.

Oh, you have a surprise for us do you?

What!?

Be patient and pay close attention ;)

Indeed, pay attention. The general assembly of the UN voted 154-5 for an immediate halt of the invasion of Ukraine by Russia.

That vote was not two weeks ago.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 4:04:

How do you feel that Russian is Banned?

In Lviv, one could be punched in the face for saying a Russian word back in Soviet times, and by 2022 this had spread to the entire territory of Ukraine, and by law. Neo-Nazi groups (the existence of which Ukraine denies, but for some reason NATO instructors, who conducted their training, openly confirm their symbols are not concealed, Nazis at the state level are equated with the status of national heroes...) arrange massacres of Russian speakers in the streets. Ukraine has been shelling its "own" Russian-speaking population for 8 years with all kinds of weapons except nuclear, including UN-banned munitions. If all this is so close to you, you won't have long to wait, the "refugees" from Ukraine will make you learn their bird language (if they try it, it's already happening now). Tell tales about Estonia with the Russian language to your gullible Western colleagues, everything is less hypertrophied than in Ukraine, but the goal is the same.

The first thing the "refugees" from Ukraine did in neighboring Moldova was to desecrate the monuments to the fight against fascism from World War II on the territory of Moldova. The refugees demand communication with themselves exclusively in Ukrainian language (the spread of which in the world is close to the Zulu language), the provision of housing and food - exactly demanded in an ultimatum form. If earlier Moldova was planning to organize refugee camps on its territory, after the above-mentioned, it is forced to organize only transit to Romania. And let Europe deal with these thrown-away "refugees" on its own. They could have just closed the border.

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 4:11:

Indeed, pay attention. The general assembly of the UN voted 154-5
for an immediate halt of the invasion of Ukraine by Russia.

We have very good "teachers". USA, Israel, NATO ;) They had their own opinions in Yugoslavia, Bosnia, Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Vietnam, Cambodia... Shall I go on? And study the question exactly on what principles Ukraine is denied membership in the EU and NATO. When you understand it, we'll talk about it.

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Hey Oleg,

And study the question exactly on
what principles Ukraine is denied membership in the EU and NATO. When you understand it, we'll talk about it.

Well, maybe you need to study the course "EU 101" ...

Membership to the EU has not been refused for starters. Getting the membership is a tedious process whereby an interested member's economy and finances is upgraded to EU-levels in order to not destabilse the Union.

There's also a lengthy process of harmonising the candidate's legislation in a plethora of subjects, adaptation to common rules, directives, guidelines, .... The object being to put the bar for every member at the same playing level ...

As for why Ukraine is not a member of NATO yet, that's an easy one ... NATO's leadership is a bunch of politicians, not military people ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Oleg,

Neo-Nazi groups (the existence of which Ukraine
denies, but for some reason NATO instructors, who conducted their
training, openly confirm their symbols are not concealed, Nazis at the state level are equated with the status of national heroes...) arrange massacres of Russian speakers in the streets. Ukraine has been shelling
its "own" Russian-speaking population for 8 years with all kinds of
weapons except nuclear, including UN-banned munitions.

Show me the proof ...

The first thing the "refugees" from Ukraine did in neighboring Moldova
was to desecrate the monuments to the fight against fascism from World
War II on the territory of Moldova.

Show me the proof ...

You should be ashamed of yourself spreading such vicious propaganda ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

How do you feel that Russian is Banned?

In Lviv, one could be punched in the face for saying a Russian word back in Soviet times,

Of course you can be punched in the face for what you say in any language.

and by 2022 this had spread to the entire territory of Ukraine,
and by law.

What is this law you speak of? I don't need you to recite the law books but explain this law to me.

Neo-Nazi groups (the existence of which Ukraine denies, but for
some reason NATO instructors, who conducted their training, openly confirm
their symbols are not concealed, Nazis at the state level are equated with the
status of national heroes...) arrange massacres of Russian speakers in the
streets. Ukraine has been shelling its "own" Russian-speaking population for 8 >years with all kinds of weapons except nuclear, including UN-banned munitions.
If all this is so close to you, you won't have long to wait, the "refugees" from Ukraine will make you learn their bird language (if they try it, it's already happening now). Tell tales about Estonia with the Russian language to your gullible Western colleagues, everything is less hypertrophied than in Ukraine, but the goal is the same.

You are talking like you have been propagandized for many years and you have soaked it all up. Ukraine also fought against the Nazis. Largely.

Truth be told the invasion of Ukraine resembles Nazi actions of WW2 and the bombing of Great Britain.

The first thing the "refugees" from Ukraine did in neighboring Moldova was to desecrate the monuments to the fight against fascism from World War II on the territory of Moldova. The refugees demand communication with themselves
exclusively in Ukrainian language (the spread of which in the world is close t >the Zulu language), the provision of housing and food - exactly demanded in an
ultimatum form. If earlier Moldova was planning to organize refugee camps on
its territory, after the above-mentioned, it is forced to organize only transi
to Romania. And let Europe deal with these thrown-away "refugees" on its own. They could have just closed the border.

That's quite a rant. You have several grievances.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Indeed, pay attention. The general assembly of the UN voted 154-5
for an immediate halt of the invasion of Ukraine by Russia.

We have very good "teachers". USA, Israel, NATO ;) They had their own

opinions

in Yugoslavia, Bosnia, Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Vietnam, Cambodia... Shall I go on?

By all means.

And study the question exactly on what principles Ukraine is denied

membership > in the EU and NATO.

That is for NATO and the EU to decide, I have no say. What has any of that got to do with Russia's invasion of a peaceful, sovereign nation?

When you understand it, we'll talk about it.

Share your understanding, if you please.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 13:23:

As for why Ukraine is not a member of NATO yet, that's an easy one
... NATO's leadership is a bunch of politicians, not military
people ...

Among other things, Ukraine has formally undocumented borders, a demarcation line. It has not been agreed upon with any of the bordering states since the Belovezh Treaty, which, from the legal point of view, is null and void in the absence of the implementation of this clause.

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: 27 ��� � ����... ��-�-�� �� �������... (2:50/700)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 13:27:

Show me the proof ...

What, exactly, are we talking about in Russia's war with the West? Where is the neutral, unbiased coverage of the conflict?
Or have you not known what was going on since 2004?

The first thing the "refugees" from Ukraine did in neighboring
Moldova was to desecrate the monuments to the fight against
fascism from World War II on the territory of Moldova.

Show me the proof ... You should be ashamed of yourself spreading
such vicious propaganda ...

I have enough of my own eyes, unlike you I have been to Kiev and Donetsk and 2014 and 2022. And there is no reason not to trust my relatives and friends who live there all the time.

I don't watch TV, from the word go, and I'm not exposed to propaganda. But I am a party to the conflict, because at least I know very well the history, including that of my own family, of what fascism is.

\%/@rd --- DB4 - 20220222 * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol.
Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

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���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 5:27:

in Yugoslavia, Bosnia, Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Vietnam,
Cambodia... Shall I go on?

By all means.

See? You don't care about that. The U.S. bombed a peaceful sovereign state - you kept quiet. Were Americans harassed in Yugoslavia? Then why do you care so much about Ukraine?

And study the question exactly on what principles Ukraine is
denied

That is for NATO and the EU to decide, I have no say. What has any
of that got to do with Russia's invasion of a peaceful, sovereign
nation?

You'll find out after the victory. If you want to hear us.

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���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 5:22:

You are talking like you have been propagandized for many years
and you have soaked it all up. Ukraine also fought against the
Nazis. Largely.

You only believe your own west propaganda, that's all.


--
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//Hello Oleg,//

on *15.03.22* at *16:22:35* You wrote in Area *FIDONEWS*
to *Ward Dossche* about *"Re: Ukraine National Anthem"*.

What, exactly, are we talking about in Russia's war with the West? Where is the neutral, unbiased coverage of the conflict? Or have you not known what was going on since 2004?

Well, 140 nations in the UN essentially decided that what you are spreading here is repeating pure propaganda created to stage a war.

Unlike in russia, in most other countries on the planet it is perfectly legal to have different opinions on that war. Interestingly, we do not see journalists from other countries uncovering "the shocking truth of western lies". Instead we see russias former friends in the west (particularly also left-wing journalists) turning away in disgust. Start thinking!

BTW: yes, like in most other countries (particularly also in russia), there are some nazis in the Ukraine (was that 2% at last election or 0.2%?). But certainly the jewisch comedian leading the state isnt one as are not almost all of the other people living there. *Putin just needed an excuse to slaughter your brothers to take land.*

Currently, millions of refugees from Ukraine are already arriving in western europe. Actually, millions alone in Poland. Why do you think these people dont go to Russia to escape from the nazi massacres?

In case you didnt notice. THE WORLD has turned from russia. Putin has already completely destroyed your countrys future. Your money is now wortless, nobody wants to buy russian goods anymore, you will not get replacement parts for anything high tech (say goodbye to your passenger planes) ...

My advice is go out of the door and think about what changes you probably already see in Russias everday life.

Regards,
Tim

--- WinPoint 407.0
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:240/1120.29)

Hello Oleg,

If NATO gets involved, it will squash Russia like a bug. Lithuania
is a member of NATO. So is Poland. Moldova (and Kosovo) have
applied for membership.

I wouldn't be so sure about such statements.

Article 5 makes it 30 members of NATO as one fighting group.

If the northern alliance pulls out, a preemptive strike will be launched against all firing points simultaneously.

No nation other than the USA has first-strike capability. Of course,
no NATO member wants to use its own first-strike capability against any
country in the world, as we all know what would happen (no more world).

Any madman wanting to use his/her own first-strike capability (whether
real or imagined) would wind up with the same result.

It may have been Putin's dream that Trump would pull the USA out
of NATO, but his dream POTUS is no longer POTUS so we all know that
will not happen.

Our missiles are dozens of times faster, and no one has ever been able to intercept them.

Who wins WWIII? Ants and cockroaches. Is that a world anybody would
even want to live in? Fortunately for us all, that will not happen.
You see, any nuclear war will wind up being extremely limited. No more
than half a dozen going KABOOM! You know why? Magnetic flux. Of course,
some cities would be lost. But no more than a handful. After that, it
is conventional warfare. Until all we have left are rocks and sticks.

What are you talking about?

Reality.

NATO has been looking for our submarines for two weeks...;)

The game of TAG is played by all sides ...

--Lee

--
Every Bottom Needs A Top

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alan,

An achievable compromise with Russian speaking areas in Ukraine is very
possible if the Ukrainian nationalists not act as a dull ram before the
new gate. Both nations in Ukraine should have the same rights and it is
only just.

Dull ram before the new gate? Both nations in Ukraine?

What are you talking about? There are not both nations in Ukraine, there is
just Ukraine.

You don't understand.

First there was Ukraine.
Which gave birth to Russia.
Which later morphed into the USSR.
Which invited Ukraine to join as a part of the USSR.
Then the USSR joined the United Nations.
Then the USSR wanted to have 15 votes in the General Assembly rather
than just 1 vote since the USSR was composed of 15 Republics, including Ukraine.
However, the General-Secretary of the time denied the USSR's request,
granting the USSR only 3 votes in the General Assembly, without noting
which 3 votes those votes would be from.
The USA request to have 50 votes was denied, and has only 1 vote.
Then Kruschev, who was an ethnic Ukrainian, gave away Ukraine to
Ukrainians in a vain effort to get an extra 4th vote in the UN.
Then Gorbachev protested and each of the 15 Republics declared their
own independence. Starting with Ukraine.
However, Gorbachev never recognized Ukraine's independence as he was
no longer in power, given there was no longer any more USSR.
Russia was allowed to retain its own vote in the UN, along with
all of the other 14 Republics, including Ukraine.
Nobody knows what happened to the other 12 votes that were never
counted when there was a USSR.
But Vladimir Putin still recognizes the USSR, hence two nations
of Ukraine.
That is why he needs to bring the two Ukraines together as one.

Now do you understand? Putin is a uniter, not a divider.

--Lee

--
When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alexander,

What we saw in 2014 was the beginning of WWIII. The current
situation is an escalated continuation of that war.
Of course, we all know how that war ends ...

An achievable compromise with Russian speaking areas in Ukraine is very possible if the Ukrainian nationalists not act as a dull ram before the new gate. Both nations in Ukraine should have the same rights and it is only just.

Ukraine is one nation. I do not believe Ukraine has any interest
expanding its internationally recognized borders to include Russia
as part of its nation.

Canada has two main groups of people who speak different languages -
English and French. And yet the two groups remain together - as part
of the same nation of Canada. I do not find France trying to divide
Canadians into two different nations. And I do not find the Queen
of England trying to exile French-speaking peoples from Canada -
although she really should rescind the order a King of England made
to exile Cajuns.

--Lee

--
If we don't get it / Shut it down!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

���ண� �६�窠, Tim Schattkowsky.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 15:23:

Well, 140 nations in the UN essentially decided that

The UN has "solved", condemned and banned many things, such as the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. How was it solved, do you know? Reservations with a 10-meter wall, barbed wire and machine gunners on towers. That was no solution - they took away the fertile land and spit on the 140 nations from a high bell tower.

When journalists from other countries want to cover the "shocking truth about Western lies," they will do so. So far, we haven't even seen that desire - the culprit has already been identified.

I fear the West will start thinking too late for itself. Borrell had the nerve to allow some common sense thoughts, but who would listen to him.

You know very little of the history of Nazism (in Germany in the 1940s). The Jewish clown Zelensky is the embodiment of the rainbow dreams of the organizers of the Nazi movement.

Ukraine was so eager to get into Europe. Dreams are coming true! Romania, the Czech Republic and Poland are already beginning to realize who they have accepted. Wait a little while - all the secret becomes clear, you will know the true face of Western propaganda in Ukraine.

The Western world has never turned its face toward us. It is a mask of hypocrisy. As the master ordered, so you will turn. And bow low for the removal of the mask!

Don't get your hopes up about our national currency.
Think of the fate of your own. As for airplanes - we can't refuse, if you are not aware, there are at least three civil aviation factories in Russia. And we did not fly them to Europe because Europe itself demanded it - so you don't get earaches. On the third day I flew the IL-96, and traditionally I don't accept any other aircraft.

My advice - think about what you plan to achieve with sanctions? We have been living with sanctions for at least 70 years. And we can already see the benefits of them - there is no more export of capital from the country, capital works in Russia. There are no draconian restrictions on the sale of domestic medicines and products to the population. And finally take away McDonald's and Coca-Cola, stop feeding our children with modified GMOs!

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
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You know very little of the history of Nazism (in Germany in the 1940s). The Jewish clown Zelensky is the embodiment of the rainbow dreams of the organizers of the Nazi movement.

Oh my dear ... I don't think in my Fido-years I've ever seen some make such a fool of himself in public.

Quite entertaining, keep it up.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Lee!

Tuesday March 15 2022 01:15, you wrote to me:

Russia has lost 10 million people, mostly young women of childbearing
age, due to emigration over the past ten years. I do not believe many
of them will be returning to Russia anytime soon.

I cannot blame them for that :)

Tomorrow he'll start new war with Lithuania, Poland or Moldova
and economy will crush again.

If NATO gets involved, it will squash Russia like a bug. Lithuania
is a member of NATO. So is Poland. Moldova (and Kosovo) have applied
for membership.

It's a nuclear war! The last thing on Earth I want in my life.

Beaches in Thailand are fun places to be in times like these.

Oh, it was like in prehistoric era, so much years ago..

Russia is doing a piss-poor job promoting itself as a dream
destination.

Oh yeah! :)

There was Sochi a few years ago ...

But after Sochi we had doping scandal when whistleblower revealed how FSB officers were helping to avoid doping checks to some of our athlets :(

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Lee!

Tuesday March 15 2022 01:15, you wrote to me:

The USA won the "war in Vietnam" - which is called the American War
by Vietnamese. The problem was the S. Vietnamese officers were paid
in US dollars, and the privates were trained by the French. When the
N. Vietnamese made their final advance, the S. Vietnamese officers
bought their way to safety, and the privates fled into the hills.
A few were able to make it to safety by finding a boat, or climb onto
the roof of the US embassy in Saigon.

It's a total disaster to live in a country during civil war :(
THe most terrible thing in the world (IMHO).

The whole communist ideology was a disaster for humankind!

It is the same people, not divided by ideology. Even in today's
Vietnam, communism as an ideology is a fiction.

Yes, because communism as ideology is just some weird dream.

What existed in the former USSR was not communism, but a cult.

It was socialism, our task was to build communism in some nearest feature. Socialism means that everything is owned by the state.

First the Bolsheviks, led by Lenin. One could call it Leninism.
Then by Stalin, or Stalinism. Gorbachev decided not to play that
game any more, and that era finally came to a close.

That's why I like Gorbachev :)

The Russian Orthodox Church is not banned. And the Patriarch
of Moscow is still allowed to say anything he wants.

He is just a part of the state. Our Church is completely under state control.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Oleg!

Tuesday March 15 2022 13:25, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

We'll see, we'll see (Russian proverb).

Could please post it in Russian??

Do you know why the UN decided that this was an internal Russian
affair?

Fake news.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Oleg!

Tuesday March 15 2022 13:46, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

You are deeply confused. There are two languages there, not two
nations.

Yeah? And Estonians and Russians with different languages, where
Russian is also de jure banned, are also one?

Banned where? In Estonia?
My Russian friends from Estonia got more rights than Russians in Moscow (myself) ;)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Oleg!

Tuesday March 15 2022 14:51, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

In Lviv, one could be punched in the face for saying a Russian word
back in Soviet times, and by 2022 this had spread to the entire

No.

In Kemerovo (2:5001, my native town) it was and still possible to get punch in your face if you are from Moscow. But no one is bombing Kemerovo, as far as I know.

territory of Ukraine, and by law. Neo-Nazi groups (the existence of
which Ukraine denies, but for some reason NATO instructors, who
conducted their training, openly confirm their symbols are not
concealed, Nazis at the state level are equated with the status of national heroes...) arrange massacres of Russian speakers in the

Massacres of Russian speakers?! Are you insane?
I've been in Kiev before the COVID and had no problems talking Russian and telling people around that I am from Moscow.
Everyone on Kiev speaks Russian.

Official language in Ukranian but it means that if you want to speak Ukranian only - you'll be ok. But at any moment you can switch to Russian.

streets. Ukraine has been shelling its "own" Russian-speaking
population for 8 years with all kinds of weapons except nuclear,

Shelling Russian speakers in Kiev? Or fighting with Russian mercenaries in DNR/LNR?

including UN-banned munitions. If all this is so close to you, you
won't have long to wait, the "refugees" from Ukraine will make you
learn their bird language (if they try it, it's already happening

"Bird language"? Are you nazi youself?!

now). Tell tales about Estonia with the Russian language to you
gullible Western colleagues, everything is less hypertrophied than in Ukraine, but the goal is the same.

What do you know about Estonia? :)


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Oleg!

Tuesday March 15 2022 14:58, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

We have very good "teachers". USA, Israel, NATO ;) They had their own opinions in Yugoslavia, Bosnia, Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine,
Vietnam, Cambodia... Shall I go on? And study the question exactly on
what principles Ukraine is denied membership in the EU and NATO. When
you understand it, we'll talk about it.

I've spent a big part of my life in Lebanon.
You know nothing about conflict in this country, sounds like you are just trying to bring stupid state propaganda into this echo.

Shame in you :(

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Oleg!

Tuesday March 15 2022 16:22, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

I have enough of my own eyes, unlike you I have been to Kiev and
Donetsk and 2014 and 2022. And there is no reason not to trust my relatives and friends who live there all the time.

I've been in Kiev in 2019. So what? And my colleagues are in Kiev at this moment.

I don't watch TV, from the word go, and I'm not exposed to propaganda.
But I am a party to the conflict, because at least I know very well
the history, including that of my own family, of what fascism is.

I also know that. And It looks like you know such things from state propaganda.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Ward!

Tuesday March 15 2022 21:48, you wrote to Oleg Nazaroff:

Oh my dear ... I don't think in my Fido-years I've ever seen some make such a fool of himself in public.

Quite entertaining, keep it up.

He is just retelling our TV talk shows and news.
They are so weird..

May be he is just trolling, but we are discussing with him in russian-language echo how he is going to live without internet/fidonet and how russian ruble will dominate the world economy. Wow.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello Oleg!

15 Mar 22 13:25, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

Putins invasion of Ukraine has united NATO like it has never been
united before. I don't ever remember NATO being as united as they
are now. I don't think that was Putins plan but that is what he
has accomplished.

We'll see, we'll see (Russian proverb).

Do you know why the UN decided that this was an internal Russian
affair?

I think you've been speding too much time watching Russian state-sponsored news.

the UN nearly unanimounsly voted to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and called for an immediate halt to Putin's war.


Those that voted aganst it are either Putin's buddies, or are completely terrified of Putin.


Mike


... I like to be rested when things start to happen. - Hobbes
=== GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)

Hello Ward!

15 Mar 22 13:27, you wrote to Oleg Nazaroff:

Oleg,

Neo-Nazi groups (the existence of which Ukraine
denies, but for some reason NATO instructors, who conducted their
training, openly confirm their symbols are not concealed, Nazis at
the state level are equated with the status of national heroes...)
arrange massacres of Russian speakers in the streets. Ukraine has
been shelling its "own" Russian-speaking population for 8 years
with all kinds of weapons except nuclear, including UN-banned
munitions.

Show me the proof ...

The first thing the "refugees" from Ukraine did in neighboring
Moldova was to desecrate the monuments to the fight against
fascism from World War II on the territory of Moldova.

Show me the proof ...

You should be ashamed of yourself spreading such vicious propaganda
...

He can't help it. It's what's being fed to him by the state-run media outlets. Journalists can now be thrown in prison for reporting anything contrary to what Putin wants his people to hear.



Mike


... Yo' momma's so nasty she was quarantined before she was born
=== GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)

���ண� �६�窠, Lee Lofaso.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 20:03:

I wouldn't be so sure about such statements.

Article 5 makes it 30 members of NATO as one fighting group.

We're pretty much cut out for it.

No nation other than the USA has first-strike capability.

This is what you so naively and sacredly believe. The U.S. has long been nothing more than a bubble. It loves to inflate its own bubbles, and to burst them with pleasure.

Any madman wanting to use his/her own

It's who has the toughest balls ;) And a cool head.

Who wins WWIII? Ants and cockroaches. Is that a world anybody
would even want to live in?

What do we need the world for if we don't have Russia in it?

Reality. The game of TAG is played by all sides ...

Doesn't matter to us, but not to the west. The ball is on our side.

--
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By all means.

See? You don't care about that.

Why do you assume I don't care about that? I simply told you to express yourself.

The U.S. bombed a peaceful sovereign state - you kept quiet.

Did I?

Were Americans harassed in Yugoslavia?

NATO intervened because of the bloodshed and ethnic cleansing of Albainians by Yugoslavia.

Then why do you care so much about Ukraine?

I care the same about Russia that I do about Ukraine.

And study the question exactly on what principles Ukraine is
denied

Ukraine was invaded by a bully state.

You'll find out after the victory. If you want to hear us.

I will certainly hear you.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

You are talking like you have been propagandized for many years
and you have soaked it all up. Ukraine also fought against the
Nazis. Largely.

You only believe your own west propaganda, that's all.

There is no propaganda state here. I will believe you if you tell me the facts and back them up when needed.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

You don't understand.

First there was Ukraine.
Which gave birth to Russia.

Yes, I have been reluctant to bring this point up with our Rssian friends.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello, Oleg!

Tuesday March 15 2022 21:28, you wrote to Tim Schattkowsky:

1940s). The Jewish clown Zelensky is the embodiment of the rainbow

"Jewish clown"? WOW!

Don't get your hopes up about our national currency.

We have black market already.

Think of the fate of your own. As for airplanes - we can't refuse, if
you are not aware, there are at least three civil aviation factories
in Russia. And we did not fly them to Europe because Europe itself

But those factories cannot do anything without EU's supplies.

demanded it - so you don't get earaches. On the third day I flew the IL-96, and traditionally I don't accept any other aircraft.

We cannot produce IL-96 anymore and it was VERY expensive to opperate.
Who is gonna pay for that?

My advice - think about what you plan to achieve with sanctions? We
have been living with sanctions for at least 70 years. And we can

No. We had very different periods. Current sucntions are huge!

already see the benefits of them - there is no more export of capital
from the country, capital works in Russia. There are no draconian

We have problems with incoming wire transfers, people are moving from Russia in big numbers!

restrictions on the sale of domestic medicines and products to the

No drugs, people are literally screaming in local telegram channels because they cannot buy required meds.
Putin never thought about them.

population. And finally take away McDonald's and Coca-Cola, stop
feeding our children with modified GMOs!

GMO? Is it for real?!

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Oleg!

Wednesday March 16 2022 00:11, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

Who wins WWIII? Ants and cockroaches. Is that a world anybody
would even want to live in?

What do we need the world for if we don't have Russia in it?

Oh, thanks!

I thought you are serious. But you are just trolling.

Those words are from from Putin his is just out of his mind.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Re: Re^2: Ukraine National Anthem
By: Oleg Nazaroff to Tim Schattkowsky on Tue Mar 15 2022 09:28 pm

Oleg,

I have some thoughts and ideas about your statements you made. Here goes...

The UN has "solved", condemned and banned many things, such as the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. How was it solved, do you know? Reservations with a 10-meter wall, barbed wire and machine gunners on towers. That was no solution - they took away the fertile land and spit on the 140 nations from a high bell tower.

The UN has never solved anything but created a "good ol' boys" club with countries that are willing to go to war over ridiculous conflicts. When the US invaded Iraq under George W. Bush, some countries came to our aid to support a lie, but would the US risk going to war with Russia if Russia decides to bomb Poland, Czech Republic, or France, I doubt it. The UN and its NATO component were truly designed to piss Russia off and make a case to stave off Russian incurision into the West. Whatever. No one wants to risk anyone going nuclear.

You know very little of the history of Nazism (in Germany in the 1940s). The Jewish clown Zelensky is the embodiment of the rainbow dreams of the organizers of the Nazi movement.

I agree and disagree here. The idea of national socialism versus what Hitler and Eichmann perverted it to become are two completely different ideals. Zelensky is trying to do the right thing but I feel that he is taking the wrong approach.

Ukraine was so eager to get into Europe. Dreams are coming true! Romania, the Czech Republic and Poland are already beginning to realize who they have accepted. Wait a little while - all the secret becomes clear, you will know the true face of Western propaganda in Ukraine.

Oh, without a doubt. Joining the EU and becoming "part of Europe" will solve nothing for Ukraine. Ukraine needs to become truly independant before it starts down a sketchy path that could create more problems for them than it is worth.

The Western world has never turned its face toward us. It is a mask of hypocrisy. As the master ordered, so you will turn. And bow low for the removal of the mask!

Russia will always be the USSR in the eyes of the West. The West will never look beyond a cloud of their own making through the propaganda spewed during the Cold War and, with the population living longer, those ideals won't die until that population finally dies off (both those in the West and in Russia). Children born in the 90s and 2000s+ see a different world, are more knowledgable, and research. Until the world rids itself of the Bidens, Putins, Trumps, etc., it will remain the "same ol' same ol'".

My advice - think about what you plan to achieve with sanctions? We have been living with sanctions for at least 70 years. And we can already see the benefits of them - there is no more export of capital from the country, capital works in Russia. There are no draconian restrictions on the sale of domestic medicines and products to the population. And finally take away McDonald's and Coca-Cola, stop feeding our children with modified GMOs!

I'm not saying Socialism is good nor am I saying it is bad. The idea that your country should provide for itself, take care of itself, and tend to its own matters, is socialism through and through. Although Communism was a perversion of Socialism, Russia could chart its own course and remove itself, once again, from the world stage and become relatively self-sufficient.

Oh, and I completely agree about getting rid of McDonald's and Coca-Cola. :)

My best to you!

Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com (1:104/116)

//Hello Oleg,//

on *15.03.22* at *21:28:02* You wrote in Area *FIDONEWS*
to *Tim Schattkowsky* about *"Re^2: Ukraine National Anthem"*.

You know very little of the history of Nazism (in Germany in the 1940s). The Jewish clown Zelensky is the embodiment of the rainbow dreams of the organizers of the Nazi movement.

Can you explain that?

Regards,
Tim

--- WinPoint 407.0
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:240/1120.29)

The UN has never solved anything but created a "good ol' boys" club with
countries that are willing to go to war over ridiculous conflicts. When the U >invaded Iraq under George W. Bush, some countries came to our aid to support a
lie, but would the US risk going to war with Russia if Russia decides to bomb Poland, Czech Republic, or France, I doubt it. The UN and its NATO component were truly designed to piss Russia off and make a case to stave off Russian incurision into the West. Whatever. No one wants to risk anyone going nuclear.

Do you understand what NATO is or what they do?

NATO will be involved in a war with Russia if they bomb Poland or any NATO country. They have made this clear. In plain english.

Rant on.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Mike,

You should be ashamed of yourself spreading such vicious propaganda MM>WD> ...

He can't help it. It's what's being fed to him by the state-run media outlets. Journalists can now be thrown in prison for reporting anything contrary to what Putin wants his people to hear.

Today I saw a video of girl who was arrested for holding-up a small paper which read "Two Words" ... no text, no protest, no messaqe ... just "Two Words" ... and she was arrested...

You know, this is so bad in 2022 I have difficulty believing this is all true. Unfortunately our own reporters are there and it "is" happening.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

As for airplanes - we can't refuse, if you
are not aware, there are at least three civil aviation factories in
Russia. And we did not fly them to Europe because Europe itself demanded
it - so you don't get earaches. On the third day I flew the IL-96, and traditionally I don't accept any other aircraft.

Based on the fact that a grand total of 29 IL-96s were built of all 4 variants of which only 14 survive (3 of which are in Cuba and 3 are in government service) I expect you don't fly much. Such a low production run in the free world is called "a failure". There simply is no market for that airplane, too noisy and too expensive to operate.

The Sukhoi 100 Superjet was promising, a few mishaps occured until that fiery accident which was fully captured at Sheremetyevo airport, that sealed the international potential of that type:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_DT8dDIugQ

Brussels Airlines operated several of them and retired that whole fleet because Sukhoi could not provide spare parts.

My daughter flew Aeroflot both medium-haul and long-haul and the only airplanes she ever was on from Brussels in and out of Moscow en route to the far east were Airbus-320 and Boeing-777.

There just is no international market for those Russian civilian aircraft and Russian airlines will only fly them when they are forced to by the government ... they're too expensive to purchase, too expensive to operate, too noisy and bad customer service by Ilyushin, Tupolev and Sukhoi.

As for being asked not to fly to European airports, that is not entirely true to use an understatement. Your beloved IL-96 was used for a while on the Moscow to NewYork route but had to stop at Heathrow for re-fueling because it lacked the endurance with a decent load. That aircraft was so noisy that it was penalised every time it departed and had to pay hefty fines up to the point where Aeroflot aquired the Boeing-777 which flies the route non-stop smiling and whistling just to avoid the cost.

It pays to know what you are talking about, but I think you asserted in a very short while how propaganda can poison a person's ability to think ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward!

Tuesday March 15 2022 22:43, you wrote to Mike Miller:

Today I saw a video of girl who was arrested for holding-up a small
paper which read "Two Words" ... no text, no protest, no messaqe ...
just "Two Words" ... and she was arrested...

I was with group of people with blank (!) peaces of paper during protests in 2014 when we've invaded Ukraine for the first time.
Some of them got weeks in jail, some paid fines, I was lucky to run fast enough...

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 14:27:

The U.S. bombed a peaceful sovereign state - you kept quiet.

Did I?

In the general number, yes.

Were Americans harassed in Yugoslavia?

NATO intervened because of the bloodshed and ethnic cleansing of Albainians by Yugoslavia.

Ok. Russia intervened because of the bloodshed and ethnic cleansing of Russians by Ukraine. What is the difference?

Then why do you care so much about Ukraine?

I care the same about Russia that I do about Ukraine.

You don't have to worry about Russia; it can take care of itself just fine.

And study the question exactly on what principles Ukraine is
denied

Ukraine was invaded by a bully state.

Wow! The world's bully state is revered by the United States. And also the brazen Saxons.

You'll find out after the victory. If you want to hear us.

I will certainly hear you.

That's not enough. Turn your government's ears.

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���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 14:28:

You are talking like you have been propagandized for many years
and you have soaked it all up. Ukraine also fought against the
Nazis. Largely.

You only believe your own west propaganda, that's all.

There is no propaganda state here. I will believe you if you tell
me the facts and back them up when needed.

Your whole press is a big propanandist machine. What did your press say about yesterday's terrorist attack using banned cluster munitions in the center of peaceful Donetsk? With casualties including 20 civilians killed and over 30 wounded. And what about the shelling of the maternity hospital in Mariupol? With the only wounded person in the three photos wearing different clothes and with different colors of manicures on nails, who in the video was moving around on his own, but later allegedly died in agony after giving birth due to a torn hip (A person even in a state of painful shock will not be able to walk).
Compare the texts of the notes. What are the sources of information in the first and second case? Which and why do you believe and which do not?

So, do you know Russian? And also Ukrainian "mowa" and German? I'm afraid that without this video below, it won't be very informative...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KReBo6bq5e0


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���ண� �६�窠, Mike Miller.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 16:13:

I think you've been speding too much time watching Russian state-sponsored news.

Don't think - it will be worse! ;)

the UN nearly unanimounsly voted to condemn Russia's invasion of
Ukraine, and called for an immediate halt to Putin's war.

If only all the issues in the world were solved by a wave of a magic wand of the United Nations... No one listens to them, so why should Russia?

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���ண� �६�窠, Brian Klauss.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 16:17:

The UN has never solved anything but created a "good ol' boys"
club with countries that are willing to go to war over ridiculous conflicts. When the US invaded Iraq under George W. Bush, some
countries came to our aid to support a lie, but would the US risk
going to war with Russia if Russia decides to bomb Poland, Czech Republic, or France, I doubt it. The UN and its NATO component
were truly designed to piss Russia off and make a case to stave
off Russian incurision into the West. Whatever. No one wants to
risk anyone going nuclear.

Do you really think Russians are crazy?
But. If a Polish plane, for example, is attacked, by law we would have to shoot it down and destroy the airfield from which it took off. And NATO knows this very well. Isn't that why the U.S. rejected Poland's offer to give Ukraine old Soviet fighters from an airfield in Germany?

I agree and disagree here. The idea of national socialism versus
what Hitler and Eichmann perverted it to become are two completely different ideals. Zelensky is trying to do the right thing but I
feel that he is taking the wrong approach.

I don't mean National Socialism at all. You don't know either, apparently. Zelensky is not just a clown, he is a controlled clown. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that all of his press conferences after 24.02 were taken down under pressure from several intelligence officers at once ;)

Oh, without a doubt. Joining the EU and becoming "part of Europe"
will solve nothing for Ukraine. Ukraine needs to become truly independant before it starts down a sketchy path that could create
more problems for them than it is worth.

Well, at least in some ways the opinions at least approximately agree.

The Western world has never turned its face toward us. It is a
mask of hypocrisy. As the master ordered, so you will turn. And
bow low for the removal of the mask!

Russia will always be the USSR in the eyes of the West. The West
will never look beyond a cloud of their own making through the
propaganda spewed during the Cold War and, with the population
living longer, those ideals won't die until that population
finally dies off (both those in the West and in Russia). Children
born in the 90s and 2000s+ see a different world, are more
knowledgable, and research. Until the world rids itself of the
Bidens, Putins, Trumps, etc., it will remain the "same ol' same
ol'".

Yes, even for the culture of our traffic within the country should change several generations ;)
That's why even the generation of young people who live in Russia now - perceive the next 50 years "in exile" quite calmly, not to mention those who left the USSR in the era of "stagnation".

I'm not saying Socialism is good nor am I saying it is bad. The
idea that your country should provide for itself, take care of
itself, and tend to its own matters, is socialism through and
through. Although Communism was a perversion of Socialism, Russia
could chart its own course and remove itself, once again, from the
world stage and become relatively self-sufficient.

The socialism of the late USSR preceded the development of "decaying" capitalism by a very long period of time. Communism is only an idea, not an unattainable one.
Nevertheless, there was neither communism nor socialism in Russia before 24.02, but capitalism imposed by the West, in its worst manifestations, with pseudo-liberalism and colonialism (and Russia was a colony). Now everything has been turned upside down, not upside down, but backwards, and thank God for that.

Oh, and I completely agree about getting rid of McDonald's and
Coca-Cola. :)

My friends and colleagues who went to the States in the early 'noughties' sent in their photos after six months of eating fast food. The unfortunate fat guys who couldn't fit through the doors were normal, trim guys before they moved. Later it took them years to regain their body shape.

My best to you!

Same to you in the same place ;)


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���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 21:48:

You know very little of the history of Nazism (in Germany in the
1940s). The Jewish clown Zelensky is the embodiment of the
rainbow dreams of the organizers of the Nazi movement.

Oh my dear ... I don't think in my Fido-years I've ever seen some
make such a fool of himself in public.

It doesn't matter what I look like, it's the other things that are important.

Quite entertaining, keep it up.

By all means


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���ண� �६�窠, Tim Schattkowsky.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 22:58:

You know very little of the history of Nazism (in Germany in the
1940s). The Jewish clown Zelensky is the embodiment of the
rainbow dreams of the organizers of the Nazi movement.

Can you explain that?

What specifically? Zelensky's physiognomy? A drug addict can explain it like no one else.


http://pics.rsh.ru/img/27553031543_1sd1e1xh.jpg


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Hello Ward!

15 Mar 22 22:43, you wrote to me:

He can't help it. It's what's being fed to him by the state-run
media outlets. Journalists can now be thrown in prison for
reporting anything contrary to what Putin wants his people to
hear.

Today I saw a video of girl who was arrested for holding-up a small
paper which read "Two Words" ... no text, no protest, no messaqe ...
just "Two Words" ... and she was arrested...

I heard a woman who worked at one of the main TV channels walked into the background of a state-owned Channel-One news broadcast with a sign that said "NO WAR" and that viewers should not believe the "propaganda" from the station. She was promptly arrested.

You know, this is so bad in 2022 I have difficulty believing this is
all true. Unfortunately our own reporters are there and it "is"
happening.

A lot of our reporters have been recalled, as news organizations aren't sure if Russia will try to arrest them for reporting what's happening.




Mike


... What's in the barn? Paris
=== GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)

Did I?

In the general number, yes.

I did not. Hear what I am telling you.

Ok. Russia intervened because of the bloodshed and ethnic cleansing of Russian by Ukraine. What is the difference?

Russia went on a PR stunt that was doomed to failure from the beggining. We can see now that he was not protecting anyone. Not russian speaking or ukrainian.

He has now put out the false flag about Ukraine and chemical weapons. I will not be surprised to see him using chemical/biological weapons as he did in Syria. I will be horrified but not surprised.

I care the same about Russia that I do about Ukraine.

You don't have to worry about Russia; it can take care of itself just fine.

As you wish.

Ukraine was invaded by a bully state.

Wow! The world's bully state is revered by the United States. And also the brazen Saxons.

Is that what you think? Think a little bit more.

I will certainly hear you.

That's not enough. Turn your government's ears.

What!?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

There is no propaganda state here. I will believe you if you tell
me the facts and back them up when needed.

Believe as you please. There is no propaganda state here.

Your whole press is a big propanandist machine. What did your press say about yesterday's terrorist attack using banned cluster munitions in the center of peaceful Donetsk? With casualties including 20 civilians killed and over 30 wounded. And what about the shelling of the maternity hospital in Mariupol?

Those cluster bombs come from Russia. They used it in other cities as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KReBo6bq5e0

Thanks, but no thanks.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 16.03.22 0:23:

Based on the fact that a grand total of 29 IL-96s were built of
all 4 variants of which only 14 survive (3 of which are in Cuba
and 3 are in government service) I expect you don't fly much. Such
a low production run in the free world is called "a failure".
There simply is no market for that airplane, too noisy and too
expensive to operate.

And don't get your hopes up. You have very outdated data.

The Sukhoi 100 Superjet was promising, a few mishaps occured until
that fiery accident which was fully captured at Sheremetyevo
airport, that sealed the international potential of that type:

Forget the word "international" already, and we'll fly between our peoples ourselves ;) we were able to cope with a much larger population of the USSR.

Brussels Airlines operated several of them and retired that whole
fleet because Sukhoi could not provide spare parts.

Sanctions ;) We knew ;)

My daughter flew Aeroflot both medium-haul and long-haul and the
only airplanes she ever was on from Brussels in and out of Moscow
en route to the far east were Airbus-320 and Boeing-777.

If you exclude the human factor from the causes of plane crashes, Boeing would still be the most unreliable, and Airbus would still be the most sacrificial ;)

There just is no international market for those Russian civilian
aircraft and Russian airlines will only fly them when they are
forced to by the government ... they're too expensive to purchase,
too expensive to operate, too noisy and bad customer service by
Ilyushin, Tupolev and Sukhoi.

Do you really think that the hypocritical face of the West under the mask of a benevolent reliable partner helped the Russian aviation industry to develop? What are you saying, for 30 years we have been told "it's the market, baby. you won't succeed anyway, believe us, we know - BUY our aircraft and no problems!
As far as I remember, Sukhoy was developed from scratch in no more than 5 years.

As for being asked not to fly to European airports, that is not
entirely true to use an understatement. Your beloved IL-96 was
used for a while on the Moscow to NewYork route but had to stop at Heathrow for re-fueling because it lacked the endurance with a
decent load. That aircraft was so noisy that it was penalised
every time it departed and had to pay hefty fines up to the point
where Aeroflot aquired the Boeing-777 which flies the route
non-stop smiling and whistling just to avoid the cost.

To me, Britain is also Europe. The fact that it seceded along with its island is irrelevant to the question.

It pays to know what you are talking about, but I think you
asserted in a very short while how propaganda can poison a
person's ability to think ...

Unfortunately for you, I know what I'm talking about.
But if the word fascism means nothing to you, we are more than aware of our own experience. And I assure you - we will walk, but in the certainty that fascism is just history.




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���ண� �६�窠, Dmitry Protasoff.
�� ��ᠫ� 16.03.22 0:32:

We have black market already. But those factories cannot do
anything without EU's supplies.

You know better than that...

We cannot produce IL-96 anymore and it was VERY expensive to
opperate. Who is gonna pay for that?

A completely different transport has been prepared especially for you ;)

No. We had very different periods. Current sucntions are huge!

Personally for you. We tried to.

We have problems with incoming wire transfers, people are moving
from Russia in big numbers!

Russia has a moratorium on the death penalty ;) That leaves the patriots.

restrictions on the sale of domestic medicines and products to
the

No drugs, people are literally screaming in local telegram
channels because they cannot buy required meds. Putin never
thought about them.

People do not yet know other names than the promoted brand names from Western pharma moguls. Google, Facebook, and Instagram have been blocked, but they haven't learned how to use the Internet.

GMO? Is it for real?!

We also have bears walking the streets without muzzles and carrying nuclear machine guns.

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���ண� �६�窠, Dmitry Protasoff.
�� ��ᠫ� 16.03.22 0:41:

What do we need the world for if we don't have Russia in it?

Oh, thanks! I thought you are serious. But you are just trolling.

Why is that? We will strike first, don't doubt it. You want it so badly - how can you refuse?


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On 16/03/2022 08:18, Mike Miller : Ward Dossche wrote:

 ON>>> The first thing the "refugees" from Ukraine did in neighboring
 ON>>> Moldova was to desecrate the monuments to the fight against
 ON>>> fascism from World War II on the territory of Moldova.

 WD>> Show me the proof ...

 WD>> You should be ashamed of yourself spreading such vicious propaganda
 WD>> ...

 He can't help it.  It's what's being fed to him by the state-run media outlets.

Where does your news come from?

--
Regards
David

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���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 19:44:

Russia went on a PR stunt that was doomed to failure from the
beggining. We can see now that he was not protecting anyone. Not
russian speaking or ukrainian.

Monsieur is a telepath?

He has now put out the false flag about Ukraine and chemical
weapons. I will not be surprised to see him using
chemical/biological weapons as he did in Syria. I will be
horrified but not surprised.

I wonder when you will be surprised? When you find out (and by whom do you think it should be confirmed) that someone else is doing this to you right now? How much are you willing to suffer on the physical plane to find out?

Wow! The world's bully state is revered by the United States. And
also the brazen Saxons.

Is that what you think? Think a little bit more.

The Deep State? It's still the West. We only have bears.

That's not enough. Turn your government's ears.

What!?

Exactly as written.

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���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 15.03.22 19:49:

Believe as you please. There is no propaganda state here.

Your whole press is a big propanandist machine. What did your
press say about yesterday's terrorist attack using banned cluster
munitions in the center of peaceful Donetsk? With casualties
including 20 civilians killed and over 30 wounded. And what about
the shelling of the maternity hospital in Mariupol?

Those cluster bombs come from Russia. They used it in other cities
as well.

It doesn't matter who invented it. It is important who used it and for what purpose. Russia don't used it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KReBo6bq5e0

Thanks, but no thanks.

And yet you didn't say a word about the press.

What was the question then? You only believe what your propaganda (no matter what you call it) tells you, don't believe that state-level propaganda exists in every country and you are under its watchful eye. Your propaganda has assigned Russia as the culprit. A long time ago, over 30 years ago. The sanctions on Russia have not been lifted yet from the USSR. And we are supposed to be goodies and believe in the sanctity and goodness of the West? That's how we can and that's how we believe ;) so far the prices are creeping up in the West, not in Russia ;) and you are the ones who are denied oil sales ;) Look at your Bidon more closely, with a magnifying glass. How is it - no matter where you spit on the planet - there are CIA ears sticking out everywhere. And a joint on a joint on a joint on a joint ;) And there's no missing, eh?)

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Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 14.03.2022 12:23


AI> I have already expressed to you that the problem in the Donbass
AI> region is separatists. Russian backed (armed) separatists. The
AI> issue is not ultra nationalists. Well maybe it is, Russian ultra
AI> nationalists in Ukraine.

It is a hypocrisy. The US and EU easily support separatism if
separatists are against Russia or the countries who have good relations
with it. Kosovo, Ethiopia are bright examples of this cynicism.
Separatists from Eritrea in Ethiopia even had cut off the whole country
from the sea -- a catastrophe for any country. But both Kosovo and
Eritrean separatists are in the good list, nobody defended Ethiopia. But
in reality Ukrainian forces had made the same cruel things as did Serbs nationalists. Yes, 14 thousand killed in Donbass is less than in
Yugoslavia, but the scale of evens was smaller.

AI> Yes, there is daily shelling in the Donbass region and everywhere
AI> in Ukraine today by the Russian military. Russian bombing/shelling
AI> is killing many in Ukraine, Russian and Ukrainian speakers alike.

Ukraine nationalists could spare Russian population and leave the areas.
But they prefer to make weapons sites in their flats. Just because they despise their lives. When they forced to leave a particular town they
destroy all the electricity and water supply for the town.

AI> Whatever the issues and solutions are in the Donbass region it is a
AI> Ukrainian problem. The Russian Federation need not amass ~200,000
AI> troops on the Ukraine border and invade that peaceful sovereign
AI> nation with it's military.

Comparing it with Yugoslavia I can say Russia has even more reason to intervene in the situation in Ukraine than NATO in Yugoslavia. Just
because the events are going next and Russian people are under attack. 8
years is surely enough for finding a peaceful solution.

ak>> Most country officials submit to new power under the threat of
ak>> physical reprisal.

AI> The Russian military did not come to Ukraine for a friendly visit.
AI> They went there to bark orders and expected the population to
AI> comply and offer flowers.

There will not be reason for the Russian military to stay in Ukraine if
its population meet it with hostility. We know well the reaction of
Ukrainian nationalists towards Russia, but the reaction of common people
in eastern Ukraine is still be clarified. Until now they risked their
lives when say positive about Russia and the Russian language. We will
see what they say without threats or pressure.

AI> Of course that didn't happen. Did you or the leaders of your
AI> country really expect it would happen? Of course not.

ak>> Photos were done in completely other medical center and this girl
ak>> participated before in many other provocative photos also.

AI> Really!? You are going to have to come up with something better
AI> than "participated before in many other provocative photos also" if
AI> you want me to believe anything you have to say.

You can guess that such a massive strike on such a huge building can't
have only one suffering girl. Its easy.

ak>> Don't forget, that the main slogan of Russia's invasion is justice
ak>> and stopping the war in Donbass.

AI> There is no justice in this war, none.

You cannot judge about it -- if your domestic propaganda has shut up the opposite point of view such a propaganda lies. They have now suppressed
all Russian media as in old times the USSR jammed the Voice of America.
Funny shame. ;-)

<skipped>
ak>> I repeat -- the Russian stance is not a complete lie. And
ak>> Ukrainian nationalists are not sinless angels.

AI> Nationalism can be problematical. I will give you that.
ak>> That why Putin propaganda works well.
AI> It does? Define works well.

In Russia it works, for most people. I don't say that it tell the
complete truth -- you should understand me correctly, and western media
are also jammed in Russia. I am against any media suppression. People
should know all points of view. Both sides tell some lie and both sides
tell some truth. For instance, I am sure that the western media have
said nothing about the shelling of long-suffering Donetsk, the day
before yesterday, with a big Ukrainian tactical missile. Just in case --
there were 23 killed, children including.

<skipped>
AI> I don't see any refugee's heading to Russia. By and large they are
AI> leaving through Poland and onwards. Very few if any are heading
AI> toward Russia.

It is because of propaganda -- in Russia now there are more than 2
millions of refugees from Ukraine, including more than 200 thousand from
the last events.

AI> I just read an article in the washigton post from 2019 that 20% of
AI> the population in Russia want to leave with Germany and the USA
AI> being the places to go. I wonder what the situation is in 2022?

;-) The poll was in a Navalny headquarter or in the Russia province?

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 15.03.2022 10:47


DP>>> You cannot be sure about that. Puting officaly annonced that
DP>>> Ukraine is some artifical creature, without rights to exist.

ak>> He never told the last statement -- you are lying badly. Even if I
ak>> don't like Putin I should say it.

DP> Is it a joke?
DP> https://tass.ru/politika/13791307

Well, I've read it -- Putin didn't say that Ukraine has no right to exist.

DP> Sounds like you don't listen carefully to your president.

Read it yourselves or give me the citation.

<skipped>
DP>>> No, it was banned from air in 2017.
ak>> Not true -- in is on air in Moscow in the third multiplex on
ak>> channel 34.

DP> Only in Moscow, it's banned in rest of Russia in 2017. And the only
DP> reason it's there - because our state is a shareholder.

And in Moscow region at least. 20 million people.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 15.03.2022 10:57

ak>> countries which cannot be bombed because of their nuclear
ak>> umbrella.
DP> We had military conflicts between India and Pakistan, they both
DP> had nuclear weapons.

Happily there was a draw then. There were not reasons to use it.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 15.03.2022 11:05

DP>>> Could you please ask him why Russia was always against
DP>>> inviting peace-keeping forces to DNR/LNR?
ak>> It because Ukraine is against Russian participation in
ak>> these forces. Ukraine is afraid that Russia will separate
ak>> fighting sides in honest.
ak>>;)
DP> Russia couldn't be peacekeeping force there, because it's
DP> actually part of the conflict. And Russia never wanted this
DP> conflict to stop, that's why it never allowed any external
DP> forces.

I think no one wants war. Russia always wanted a compromise to be
reached and Ukraine civil war would stop.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 15.03.2022 14:04

AI> Estonia is one nation. Ukraine is another. Russia is another.
AI> Peiople in various countries may or may not speak the same
AI> language. Language is not a border issue. Here in Canada we have two
AI> official languages, english and french and there are more languages
AI> spoken here including russian and ukrainian.

Do you think that it is possible for Ukraine to live as Canada, as a
bilingual state? 46% of Ukraine people speak Russian at home. Why try to
make them speak Ukrainian? You know probably well that language can be
learnt well only if you use it constantly.

Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
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Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 15.03.2022 22:03

ak>> An achievable compromise with Russian speaking areas in
ak>> Ukraine is very possible if the Ukrainian nationalists not
ak>> act as a dull ram before the new gate. Both nations in
ak>> Ukraine should have the same rights and it is only just.
LL> Ukraine is one nation. I do not believe Ukraine has any interest
LL> expanding its internationally recognized borders to include
LL> Russia as part of its nation.
LL> Canada has two main groups of people who speak different
LL> languages - English and French. And yet the two groups remain
LL> together - as part of the same nation of Canada. I do not find
LL> France trying to divide Canadians into two different nations.
LL> And I do not find the Queen of England trying to exile
LL> French-speaking peoples from Canada - although she really
LL> should rescind the order a King of England made ??to exile
LL> Cajuns.

Canada is a good example of a bilingual state where people are not
afraid to be fined for speaking in a wrong language -- the fucking
situation in Ukraine after the Language law has been passed.

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Dmitry,

I was with group of people with blank (!) peaces of paper during protests in 2014 when we've invaded Ukraine for the first time.

I think Ukraine was an independant state earlier in the 20th century when it was invaded for the first time by the communists in 1919 or something. Right?

And I suppose you are familiar with the term "Holodomor" ?

I really cannot grasp how certain 'leaders' can treat their people that way ... it's slavery ...

\%/@rd

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Oleg,

Were Americans harassed in Yugoslavia?

NATO intervened because of the bloodshed and ethnic cleansing of
Albainians by Yugoslavia.

Ok. Russia intervened because of the bloodshed and ethnic cleansing of Russians by Ukraine. What is the difference?

The first is a truth, the second a propagandistic lie which has been perpetuated for several .... repeat that lie long enough without any correction or fact-checking and eventually the masses will accept it as fact.

In 1933 a whole mass of people believed Jews were the cause of all problems. Were they? Of course not, but the propaganda was of good quality and the brainwashed masses believed it ... until those masses were forced to walk between the piles of corpses. Then Germany re-invented itself. West-Germany at least ...

Russia will also need to re-invent itself because it no longer can be a trusted member of the international community. That re-invention I will not witness anymore because the damage done in three weeks will take 3-4 decades to be repaired ... unless Putin croaks and dies...

You don't have to worry about Russia; it can take care of itself just
fine.

Russia's economy is about as large as that of the Benelux ... look at the map for the Benelux countries and wake-up. The USSR crashed because it could not afford the arms race anymore, those times are returning when there will be no money anymore to pay the hundreds of thousands of mercenaries (that's what I call paid-for military in any army) and they turn against their leadership ... or just leave.

Russia's business model will not crah, it has already. It took only 3 weeks.

Think of me when you and other Russians will fight eachother over breadcrumbs, look at photos from during the communist days and the lines of people to see what was in the stores that day to eat ... and it was not exactly that Krustchev, Breznev, Andropov, Yeltsin and Gorbatsjov looked underfed ... if you understand what I'm saying.

\%/@rd

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He has now put out the false flag about Ukraine and chemical weapons. I will not be surprised to see him using chemical/biological weapons as he did in Syria. I will be horrified but not surprised.

The real horror to me is that there are hundreds of thousands, millions ready to execute his orders instantly as coming from a divine being.

There is a book about this period in Nazism "Hitler's willing executioners" ... without the willing it does not work in Russia either. Therefor any solution in the long run will be when today's ruling generation expires and I will not live to see that ...

\%/@rd

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And don't get your hopes up. You have very outdated data.

My Fido-friend, there are only 14 airworthy IL-96 left out of 29 built. That's a fact ... it was a beautiful design and a commercial disaster, nobody wanted it with Cubana the only foreign company aquiring it because the old USSR paid it for them.

Forget the word "international" already, and we'll fly between our
peoples ourselves ;) we were able to cope with a much larger population
of the USSR.

Sure, go fly ... except the population will not be able to afford it.

If you exclude the human factor from the causes of plane crashes, Boeing would still be the most unreliable, and Airbus would still be the most sacrificial ;)

In that case, move away from it, get rid of them ... send them back to these leasing companies and fly good ol' Ruski stuff ... The only Russian planes which are used extensively in Europe and beyond are Antonovs .... wait, not Russian-made, that's Ukraine ...

As far as I remember, Sukhoy was developed from scratch in no more than 5 years.

Gosh, you're good at proving my point ...

To me, Britain is also Europe. The fact that it seceded along with its island is irrelevant to the question.

Just for the record, Great Brittain "IS" an island.

\%/@rd

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���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 16.03.22 10:11:

Oleg,

Were Americans harassed in Yugoslavia? AI> NATO intervened

because of the bloodshed and ethnic cleansing of AI> Albainians
by Yugoslavia. Ok. Russia intervened because of the bloodshed and
ethnic cleansing of Russians by Ukraine. What is the difference?

The first is a truth, the second a propagandistic lie which has
been perpetuated for several .... repeat that lie long enough
without any correction or fact-checking and eventually the masses
will accept it as fact.

You can see better from Europe how we live here. You are not the ones who have been bombed every day and at night for eight years. That's convenient. But don't yell "why us?" afterwards. - There's no one to yell, we wouldn't be able to turn our heads if we wanted to. Now it's up to you guys to clean up your own mess.

In 1933 a whole mass of people believed Jews were the cause of all problems. Were they? Of course not, but the propaganda was of good quality and the brainwashed masses believed it ... until those
masses were forced to walk between the piles of corpses. Then
Germany re-invented itself. West-Germany at least ...

The West will very soon have to rethink a lot by the standards of history and assign blame to itself.

Russia will also need to re-invent itself because it no longer can
be a trusted member of the international community. That
re-invention I will not witness anymore because the damage done in
three weeks will take 3-4 decades to be repaired ... unless Putin
croaks and dies...

Worry about yourself, forget the habit of constantly looking over your neighbor's shoulder.

Russia's economy is about as large as that of the Benelux ... look
at the map for the Benelux countries and wake-up. The USSR crashed because it could not afford the arms race anymore, those times are returning when there will be no money anymore to pay the hundreds
of thousands of mercenaries (that's what I call paid-for military
in any army) and they turn against their leadership ... or just
leave.

How does a foreign country's economy affect you? Are you going to live there?

Russia's business model will not crah, it has already. It took
only 3 weeks.

What business model? What's going on in your heads? We don't even have higher grocery prices in the stores.

Think of me when you and other Russians will fight eachother over breadcrumbs, look at photos from during the communist days and the
lines of people to see what was in the stores that day to eat ...
and it was not exactly that Krustchev, Breznev, Andropov, Yeltsin
and Gorbatsjov looked underfed ... if you understand what I'm
saying.

Where did you get such nonsense in your head? You say you have no propaganda? And where did this nonsense come from? We survived both the Union and the collapse of the Union (or rather one very clever half-Khokhol sold the country to the West), and another 30 years. This is us. We know how to do it and what to do not to repeat it. We know. The West does not yet ;) so think of yourselves. You should be freezing in winter, not us. And pick up crumbs all over the world. We have everything of our own.


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���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 16.03.22 10:13:

My Fido-friend, there are only 14 airworthy IL-96 left out of 29
built. That's a fact ... it was a beautiful design and a
commercial disaster, nobody wanted it with Cubana the only foreign company aquiring it because the old USSR paid it for them.

Oh, my goodness... Have you been reading the Soviet newspapers again?
Okay, our propaganda works very well. For the West ;) write more!

In that case, move away from it, get rid of them ... send them
back to these leasing companies and fly good ol' Ruski stuff ...
The only Russian planes which are used extensively in Europe and
beyond are Antonovs .... wait, not Russian-made, that's Ukraine
...

Study history. Antonov is not Ukrainian ;) Real Ukrainian products are halushkas and fakes ;)

Gosh, you're good at proving my point ...

It's an airplane from scratch, has absolutely nothing to do with the military. It's just business. You us falling apart Boeings we also ;)

Just for the record, Great Brittain "IS" an island.

Nope, i'v mean what i'v written.


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���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 16.03.22 9:08:

I think Ukraine was an independant state earlier in the 20th
century when it was invaded for the first time by the communists
in 1919 or something. Right?

It is not worth redrawing history and confusing the modern territory of Ukraine with Bessarabia and Galicia. The fact that they were part of the Russian empire, not independent states. Kiev is a Russian city ;) it has been populated by Galicians since 2014, the Russian population was expelled. The Communists came much later, in 1919 it was still the Bolsheviks, and they simply re-subordinated the territories of the same Russian empire without going beyond its borders.

And I suppose you are familiar with the term "Holodomor" ?

This is another historical lie. There was a famine throughout Russia; no one specifically starved the territory from the borders of Romania and Poland to Rostov.

I really cannot grasp how certain 'leaders' can treat their people
that way ... it's slavery ...

That is not for you to judge. Neither you nor your distant ancestors ever experienced such losses in wars as Russia did.

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Russia went on a PR stunt that was doomed to failure from the
beggining. We can see now that he was not protecting anyone. Not
russian speaking or ukrainian.

Monsieur is a telepath?

You can call me Al.

I wonder when you will be surprised? When you find out (and by whom do you think it should be confirmed) that someone else is doing this to you right now. How much are you willing to suffer on the physical plane to find out?

I do not suffer propaganda.

Is that what you think? Think a little bit more.

It is more, I was being nice.

The Deep State? It's still the West. We only have bears.

We have plenty of bears also but that is not the issue.

That's not enough. Turn your government's ears.

What!?

Exactly as written.

You have written nothing.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

It doesn't matter who invented it. It is important who used it and for what purpose. Russia don't used it.

Russia did use it, just as they did in Syria.

Thanks, but no thanks.

And yet you didn't say a word about the press.

I had a quick look and did some translation and it became clear it was propagana. I don't consume the stuff.

What was the question then? You only believe what your propaganda (no matter what you call it) tells you,

I believe the facts.

don't believe that state-level propaganda exists in every country and you
are under its watchful eye. Your propaganda has assigned Russia as the culprit.

In the case of using cluster bombs on civilians yes, Russia has used them on civilians and has used them in Ukraine.

A long time ago, over 30 years ago. The sanctions on Russia have not been lifted yet from the USSR. And we are suppose to be goodies and believe in the sanctity and goodness of the West? That's how we can and that's how we believe ;) so far the prices are creeping up in the West, not in Russia ;)

The latest round of sanctions are on Putin and his oligarchs directly. They are not designed to impact everyday Russian people (who could care less about any of this). It is my hope that the impact on regular folks will be minimal.

I was watching a video from a russian vlogger earlier today who went out with his camera and did some shopping. His costs for day to day shopping had increased around 30%. Your milage may vary.

and you are the ones who are denied oil sales ;) Look a your Bidon more closely, with a magnifying glass. How is it - no matter where you spit on
the planet - there are CIA ears sticking out everywhere. And a joint on a joint on a joint on a joint ;) And there's no missing, eh?)

If I could have my way there would be better/closer relations between the west and Russia. Do you think that the average Canadian or American is against you. They are not. They spend there free time spending time with family and friends and international relations are hardly thought of.

In the case of your war with Ukraine they are against you. Not because you are an enemy but because you invaded a peaceful sovereign nation. It was peaceful there before Russia invaded.

For that matter the whole world is against you (excepting the usual suspects) and your war. The EU and NATO are now more united than ever. This is what your war has accomplished.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

It is a hypocrisy. The US and EU easily support separatism if
separatists are against Russia or the countries who have good relations
with it.

The US and EU are not involved with Ukraines internal issues and Russia should not be either.

Kosovo, Ethiopia are bright examples of this cynicism.
Separatists from Eritrea in Ethiopia even had cut off the whole country
from the sea -- a catastrophe for any country. But both Kosovo and
Eritrean separatists are in the good list, nobody defended Ethiopia. But
in reality Ukrainian forces had made the same cruel things as did Serbs nationalists. Yes, 14 thousand killed in Donbass is less than in
Yugoslavia, but the scale of evens was smaller.

I don't have the gas to go to Ethiopia. :)

The west may not have put boots on the ground and I don't think Russia did either but the west has supported African countries plenty.

Ukraine nationalists could spare Russian population and leave the areas.

But that is Ukraine. Ukraine is in their own country, as one would expect.

But they prefer to make weapons sites in their flats. Just because they despise their lives. When they forced to leave a particular town they
destroy all the electricity and water supply for the town.

It is the separatists who do this.

Comparing it with Yugoslavia I can say Russia has even more reason to intervene in the situation in Ukraine than NATO in Yugoslavia.

Russia has no business in Ukraine.

Just because the events are going next and Russian people are under attack.
8 years is surely enough for finding a peaceful solution.

Those are Ukrainian people.

There will not be reason for the Russian military to stay in Ukraine if
its population meet it with hostility.

What did you expect your invasion force to meet with? Flowers?

We know well the reaction of Ukrainian nationalists towards Russia, but the reaction of common people in eastern Ukraine is still be clarified. Until
now they risked their lives when say positive about Russia and the Russian language. We will see what they say without threats or pressure.

Russian speakers in Ukraine didn't like being used as the reason for invasion.

You can guess that such a massive strike on such a huge building can't
have only one suffering girl. Its easy.

Of course.

There is no justice in this war, none.

You cannot judge about it -- if your domestic propaganda has shut up the opposite point of view such a propaganda lies. They have now suppressed
all Russian media as in old times the USSR jammed the Voice of America.
Funny shame. ;-)

Russian media has not been suppressed here. Well, some propaganda sites like RT were but I can still read the writing/thoughts/video's from Russia and it is plentyful.

I realize it may not be easy for you to reach beyond the propaganda in Russia.

In Russia it works, for most people.

I agree the propaganda machine in Russia works well. I don't think that is a good thing.

I don't say that it tell the complete truth -- you should understand me correctly, and western media are also jammed in Russia.

Yes.

I am against any media suppression. People should know all points of view. Both sides tell some lie and both sides tell some truth. For instance, I am sure that the western media have said nothing about the shelling of long-suffering Donetsk, the day before yesterday, with a big Ukrainian tactical missile. Just in case -- there were 23 killed, children including.

I know that Russia has many different types of missiles, some smaller, some larger, and some even larger and more devastating.

I am not sure that Ukraine has much in the way of "big tactical" missiles.

I don't think Ukraine is firing any missiles at Donetsk, not today in the middle of this Russian invasion. The Ukraine military has other priorities.

It is because of propaganda -- in Russia now there are more than 2
millions of refugees from Ukraine, including more than 200 thousand from
the last events.

No, it's because the refugees are headed in another direction for the most part. I did see a small number of refugees heading to Russia from the Donbass region before the invasion.

I just read an article in the washigton post from 2019 that 20% of
the population in Russia want to leave with Germany and the USA
being the places to go. I wonder what the situation is in 2022?

;-) The poll was in a Navalny headquarter or in the Russia province?

No, Navalny was not involved. It seems many have left Russia since the war started but I have no guess on what the numbers are.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Do you think that it is possible for Ukraine to live as Canada, as a bilingual state?

I am not sure. This has been a rocky road at times.

46% of Ukraine people speak Russian at home. Why try to make them speak Ukrainian?

If I were in Ukraine or Russia at this moment I would have to speak in english since it is the only language I know.

You know probably well that language can be learnt well only if you use it constantly.

I think it is only natural for a person to speak in their mother tongue. If I were to move to Russia I would have to learn to speak russian so I can communicate but I will likely always speak english when I can do that.

None of that is problematical in some way, is it?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

The real horror to me is that there are hundreds of thousands, millions ready to execute his orders instantly as coming from a divine being.

The military is trained to take orders. Every military is that way.

I feel for the Russian soldiers. They have no where to go. They can't go back home or they will be shot. They must either fire on targets as ordered or perhaps they can surrender. There are are POWs in Ukraine but I have no idea how many.

There is a book about this period in Nazism "Hitler's willing executioners" .. >without the willing it does not work in Russia either. Therefor any solution i >the long run will be when today's ruling generation expires and I will not liv
to see that ...

Yes, many in Russia blindly follow and believe what their leader says regardless of haw outrageous it is. That doesn't seem to be the case for young people though. Many have been jailed simply because they appose the war and expressed that fact. They give me hope.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Oleg,

You can see better from Europe how we live here. You are not the ones who have been bombed every day and at night for eight years.

Show us the proof of that ...

What business model? What's going on in your heads? We don't even have higher grocery prices in the stores.

Russia today needs to pay back $117 million. In theory that is such
a small amount it should not be a problem.

The problem is that the Russian government cannot redeem the dollar-denominated coupons of its dollar-denominated debt as
a result of international sanctions without draining its foreign
exchange reserves, which are largely frozen. Moreover, the sanctions
make dollar payments by the Russian government almost impossible.

The repayment is therefore expected to be made in rubles,
something Moscow announced more than a week ago. Only that
conversion into their own currency is not allowed according
to the contracts in which the dollar loans are laid down.
In theory, Russia has a 30-day grace period to make the payment
correctly, but there is a good chance that rating agencies will
not wait for that deadline to earmark the country as a defaulter,
which means bankruptcy.

When a country defaults on its payments, collapse and economical chaos follow.

Welcome to the real word, but please keep entertaining us

--- DB4 - 20220222
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, David Drummond.
On 3/16/22 12:49 PM you wrote:

On 16/03/2022 08:18, Mike Miller : Ward Dossche wrote:  ON>>>
The first thing the "refugees" from Ukraine did in neighboring
 ON>>> Moldova was to desecrate the monuments to the fight
against  ON>>> fascism from World War II on the territory of
Moldova.  WD>> Show me the proof ...  WD>> You should be
ashamed of yourself spreading such vicious propaganda  WD>> ...

 He can't help it.  It's what's being fed to him by the
state-run media outlets.

Where does your news come from?

I know you want me to be all like "rabble rabble, Fox News is the only true source of news! Rabble rabble"

Sorry to disappoint, I get my news from many sources and, if they conflict, and I care enough to find out why, I'll dig into that.

Most mornings I wake up to news from The BBC, NPR, Reuters, USA Today, AL-Jazeera, PBS, and, if I make it through those, The Economist, Washington Post and New York Times. (all audio format)

If I'm interested enough in something I'll dive into it on the web.


--
Mike
BBS: warensemble.com
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: South of Heaven - warensemble.com (1:154/30.1)

���ண� �६�窠, Ward Dossche.
�� ��ᠫ� 16.03.22 13:39:

Show us the proof of that ...

What kind of proofs are you talking about? The West has just completely destroyed freedom of speech with its own hands. Why should I know what kind of proofs you believe now? ;)

The problem is that the Russian government cannot redeem the dollar-denominated coupons of its dollar-denominated debt as a
result of international sanctions without draining its foreign
exchange reserves, which are largely frozen. Moreover, the
sanctions make dollar payments by the Russian government almost impossible.

This is not our problem. Today it West's problem ;)

The repayment is therefore expected to be made in rubles,
something Moscow announced more than a week ago. Only that
conversion into their own currency is not allowed according to
the contracts in which the dollar loans are laid down. In theory,
Russia has a 30-day grace period to make the payment correctly,
but there is a good chance that rating agencies will not wait for
that deadline to earmark the country as a defaulter, which means bankruptcy.

They'll print as much as they need, so you're like little kids. And the system will not get these notes;) But before that there will be a more different trick of the ears ;)

When a country defaults on its payments, collapse and economical
chaos follow.

You keep omitting the fact that we are no longer tied to the dollar ;) you can't buy absolutely anything with the dollar, the bubble has burst.

Welcome to the real word, but please keep entertaining us

Russia will survive the disappearance of the West for itself. Well, as if the West simply washed away ;)

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
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���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 16.03.22 4:12:

I do not suffer propaganda.

That's what you think, Al.

It is more, I was being nice.

What's impolite about the imposition yet?

The Deep State? It's still the West. We only have bears.

We have plenty of bears also but that is not the issue.

You don't have them walking around downtown Toronto ;)

You have written nothing.

If you don't understand - read it again.

--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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���ண� �६�窠, Alan Ianson.
�� ��ᠫ� 16.03.22 4:37:

Russia did use it, just as they did in Syria.

This is a lie. What does Syria have to do with it? Shall we start with napalm in Vietnam? Or a nuclear bomb in Hiroshima?

Thanks, but no thanks.

And yet you didn't say a word about the press.

I had a quick look and did some translation and it became clear it
was propagana. I don't consume the stuff.

You have no other sources than Nazi propaganda from Ukraine, at least admit it to yourself. But the West persists in calling the truth propaganda and will continue to do so to the end. Or maybe we filmed this footage ourselves at Mosfilm?

I believe the facts.

Reread the paragraph above.

In the case of using cluster bombs on civilians yes, Russia has
used them on civilians and has used them in Ukraine.

Reread the two paragraphs above.

A long time ago, over 30 years ago. The sanctions on Russia have
not been lifted yet from the USSR. And we are suppose to be
goodies and believe in the sanctity and goodness of the West?
That's how we can and that's how we believe ;) so far the prices
are creeping up in the West, not in Russia ;)

The latest round of sanctions are on Putin and his oligarchs
directly. They are not designed to impact everyday Russian people
(who could care less about any of this). It is my hope that the
impact on regular folks will be minimal.

Even grannies on the benches are laughing at the latest sanctions. Our military cannot have any business not only in the West, but also in russia. They don't really care about that.
People with a lot of money have been lumped together with the homeless in the West. Thereby digging a hole in their economy with their own hands. The West is pissed off, and we are laughing.

I was watching a video from a russian vlogger earlier today who
went out with his camera and did some shopping. His costs for day
to day shopping had increased around 30%. Your milage may vary.

In Moscow yesterday I did not notice any difference in the price of food. We are not talking about 30%. Moreover, the price tag, which previously depended on the dollar, went down.
So, some shrewd sellers did try to inflate prices, and banks raised interest rates on loans, which lasted less than a week. They could not survive such greed.

If I could have my way there would be better/closer relations
between the west and Russia. Do you think that the average
Canadian or American is against you. They are not. They spend
there free time spending time with family and friends and
international relations are hardly thought of.

In that case, absolutely the entire West is now zombified by propaganda. And it didn't start now, the U.S. was just waiting for an excuse. Russia gave the pretext deliberately, and now the whole east is laughing at the west.

In the case of your war with Ukraine they are against you. Not
because you are an enemy but because you invaded a peaceful
sovereign nation. It was peaceful there before Russia invaded.

We don't think so. ISIS is not a very peaceful neighbor, if that makes sense to you.

For that matter the whole world is against you (excepting the
usual suspects) and your war. The EU and NATO are now more united
than ever. This is what your war has accomplished.

By naming a number of independent states (whose exact location on the planet you probably can't show at a glance) "usual suspects" you are not even insulting them, but once again confirm the Western propaganda nature.
What you have achieved from west's propaganda I will write a separate post.


--
2:50/700 aka ex.2:5020/612
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Oleg!

Wednesday March 16 2022 05:50, you wrote to me:

We have black market already. But those factories cannot do
anything without EU's supplies.

You know better than that...

I know because it's the problem for them already.

We cannot produce IL-96 anymore and it was VERY expensive to
opperate. Who is gonna pay for that?

A completely different transport has been prepared especially for you
;)

???

No. We had very different periods. Current sucntions are huge!

Personally for you. We tried to.

No, for you. I am ok, mostly.

We have problems with incoming wire transfers, people are moving
from Russia in big numbers!

Russia has a moratorium on the death penalty ;) That leaves the
patriots.

Who cares about death penalty if you don't have people to do high-tech jobs?

No drugs, people are literally screaming in local telegram
channels because they cannot buy required meds. Putin never
thought about them.

People do not yet know other names than the promoted brand names from Western pharma moguls. Google, Facebook, and Instagram have been
blocked, but they haven't learned how to use the Internet.

People cannot find replacement for basic drugs. This is how it's happening in Moscow right now.

GMO? Is it for real?!

We also have bears walking the streets without muzzles and carrying nuclear machine guns.

But I've asked you about GMO.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Oleg!

Wednesday March 16 2022 05:53, you wrote to me:

Why is that? We will strike first, don't doubt it. You want it so
badly - how can you refuse?

"We" means that you have some company there? :) Some clowns, may be?

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday March 16 2022 09:38, you wrote to me:

Well, I've read it -- Putin didn't say that Ukraine has no right to
exist.

Oh!

Sounds like you don't listen carefully to your president.

Read it yourselves or give me the citation.

In Russia?

���६����� ��ࠨ�� 楫���� � ��������� �뫠 ᮧ���� ���ᨥ�, �筥�, ����襢���᪮�, ����㭨���᪮� ���ᨥ�

Only in Moscow, it's banned in rest of Russia in 2017. And the
only reason it's there - because our state is a shareholder.

And in Moscow region at least. 20 million people.

No, only in Moscow. Not in Moscow region.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday March 16 2022 09:42, you wrote to me:

We had military conflicts between India and Pakistan, they both
had nuclear weapons.

Happily there was a draw then. There were not reasons to use it.

So you are agree that you were not right? :)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday March 16 2022 09:46, you wrote to me:

actually part of the conflict. And Russia never wanted this
conflict to stop, that's why it never allowed any external
forces.

I think no one wants war. Russia always wanted a compromise to be

About 50% of Russians want war. Do you need link about that?

reached and Ukraine civil war would stop.

No.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Oleg!

Wednesday March 16 2022 03:36, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

Ok. Russia intervened because of the bloodshed and ethnic cleansing of Russians by Ukraine. What is the difference?

It's just fake. There were no bloodshed.

Then why do you care so much about Ukraine?

I care the same about Russia that I do about Ukraine.

You don't have to worry about Russia; it can take care of itself just fine.

No, we can't produce very important drugs, for example.

Ukraine was invaded by a bully state.

You'll find out after the victory. If you want to hear us.

I will certainly hear you.

That's not enough. Turn your government's ears.

Turn were?

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)