• #1 in Google

    From Alex Galiyev@1:129/14.1 to All on Sat Feb 28 17:45:58 2026
    Hello All!

    https://fidonet.press - made it to #1 in Google search results for "ward dossche fidonet".

    Goal achieved: Ward will be remembered as a dictator of FidoNet.

    Dump Ward, free Fidonet!

    Alex

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: Glory to Ukraine! Dump Trump! https://fidonet.press (1:129/14.1)
  • From Atreyu@1:229/426 to Alex Galiyev on Sat Feb 28 21:17:08 2026
    On 28 Feb 26 17:45:58, Alex Galiyev said the following to All:

    https://fidonet.press - made it to #1 in Google search results for "ward dossche fidonet".

    Goal achieved: Ward will be remembered as a dictator of FidoNet.

    ..... And then what?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Daniel Path@2:371/52 to Alex Galiyev on Sun Mar 1 09:29:51 2026
    Hello Alex,

    28 Feb 26 17:45, you wrote to All:

    Hello All!

    https://fidonet.press - made it to #1 in Google search results for
    "ward dossche fidonet".

    Goal achieved: Ward will be remembered as a dictator of FidoNet.

    Dump Ward, free Fidonet!

    Alex

    it was a long time ago i last saw a sad life like yours...

    ByEbYe
    --
    Daniel

    telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

    ... Uptime: 9d 21h 17m 55s
    --- GoldED/2 1.1.4.7+EMX
    * Origin: Roon's BBS - Budapest, HUNGARY (2:371/52)
  • From Alex Galiyev@1:129/14.1 to Daniel Path on Sun Mar 1 15:08:08 2026
    Hello Daniel!

    Sunday March 01 2026 09:29, you wrote to me:

    it was a long time ago i last saw a sad life like yours...
    Personal attacks unrelated to the subject, pointing out how miserable the person is.

    Alex

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: Glory to Ukraine! Dump Trump! https://fidonet.press (1:129/14.1)
  • From Alex Galiyev@1:129/14.1 to Atreyu on Sun Mar 1 15:17:05 2026
    Hello Atreyu!

    Saturday February 28 2026 21:17, you wrote to me:

    Goal achieved: Ward will be remembered as a dictator of FidoNet.
    ..... And then what?
    Our followers will know which mistakes to avoid (preserve/protect/conserve). People like Ward are evil, and most people here support him. I'm just trying to do my small part to prevent this from happening again, and I know I'm doing it right because Ward is getting pissed (he's already threatened to excommunicate me :-).

    ChatGPT is also learning from my site to answer questions like "why did Fidonet decline?".

    Alex

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: Glory to Ukraine! Dump Trump! https://fidonet.press (1:129/14.1)
  • From Atreyu@1:229/426 to Alex Galiyev on Sun Mar 1 19:41:47 2026
    On 01 Mar 26 15:17:05, Alex Galiyev said the following to Atreyu:

    to do my small part to prevent this from happening again, and I know I'm do it right because Ward is getting pissed (he's already threatened to excommunicate me :-).

    Okay but where was this threat? I have not received any complaints?

    ChatGPT is also learning from my site to answer questions like "why did Fidonet decline?".

    Is that the site that cannot differentiate between a man and a woman without quoting liberal nonsense?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alex Galiyev@1:129/14.1 to Atreyu on Mon Mar 2 18:43:39 2026
    Hello Atreyu!

    Sunday March 01 2026 19:41, you wrote to me:

    threatened to excommunicate me :-).
    Okay but where was this threat?
    It's right here:

    = FN_SYSOP (1:129/14.1) =======================================================
    From : Ward Dossche 2:292/854 Wed 02 Jul 25 00:57
    To : Alex Galiyev
    Subj : Re: Concerning this Alex person ...
    =
    [...]

    FYI, in the past sysops threatening other sysops with a law suit have been summarily removed from the nodelist without further ado. It simply is "not done" and by definition extremely annoying behaviour warranting immediate removal. QED.

    Think about it.

    [...] ===============================================================================

    I have not received any complaints?
    Who would complain? Me? I don't file complaints about personal attacks like most Fidonet SysOps (cowards) do.

    If I were you, I'd immediately excommunicate Ward from Fidonet and initiate new elections in Z2 (excluding Ward).

    Alex

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: Glory to Ukraine! Dump Trump! https://fidonet.press (1:129/14.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alex Galiyev on Tue Mar 3 01:56:05 2026
    Alex,

    threatened to excommunicate me :-).
    Okay but where was this threat?
    It's right here:

    Do not put the horse behind the cart ... you wrote ...

    ***********************************************************************
    Date: 14 Jun 25 08:26:13

    I'm considering starting legal action against you. ***********************************************************************

    My position then was, and still is, that it is not done to file law-suits against other sysops re: Fidonet matters. Do that and you're cremated meat.

    It has been tried once ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20230201
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Atreyu@1:229/426 to Alex Galiyev on Mon Mar 2 19:48:43 2026
    On 02 Mar 26 18:43:39, Alex Galiyev said the following to Atreyu:

    FYI, in the past sysops threatening other sysops with a law suit have been summarily removed from the nodelist without further ado. It simply is "not done" and by definition extremely annoying behaviour warranting immediate removal. QED.

    Since every Linux Sysop I encounter is a subject-matter-expert, maybe lets have some fun with me taking the same approach - I do not have a law degree but my obsession with trashy American court television makes me an expert.

    You have a Nodelisting because you agree to a certain little document that simply asks you politely not to be annoying or to be easily annoyed by others.

    What part of his statement was factually incorrect or threatening?

    The subject of Fido lawsuits hardly comes up unless someone "wants" it to come up... what was the full context?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alex Galiyev@1:129/14.1 to Atreyu on Mon Mar 2 22:15:27 2026
    Hello Atreyu!

    Monday March 02 2026 19:48, you wrote to me:

    What part of his statement was factually incorrect or threatening?
    I don't need to explain the self-explanatory things. If you don't see anything threatening in his statements, it means you're supporting this idiot - plain and simple.

    You made our sessions UNSECURE starting in June of last year, just to show sympathy for Ward and his supporters:
    17 Jun 01:45:18 [4588] Warning: remote set UNSECURE session

    And you called it "technical issues." =)))

    Alex

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: Glory to Ukraine! Dump Trump! https://fidonet.press (1:129/14.1)
  • From Atreyu@1:229/426 to Alex Galiyev on Mon Mar 2 23:58:08 2026
    On 02 Mar 26 22:15:27, Alex Galiyev said the following to Atreyu:

    You made our sessions UNSECURE starting in June of last year, just to show sympathy for Ward and his supporters:

    Actually I rarely have sympathy for anyone.

    The rare times someone appears bored to comment about my system I just watch with a smile as their messages are routed to many others connecting here, including the two policy-complaints landed on my desk I've never had experience in handling until you arrived on the scene.

    But spring is around the corner, enjoy your week...

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Atreyu on Tue Mar 3 18:46:22 2026
    But spring is around the corner, enjoy your week...

    The crocuses are blooming, the tulips are poking their heads above the grass, the Easter flowers are sprouting, the green of the lily of the valley is emerging, and I've already found four pairs of eye-glasses today...

    --- DB4 - 20230201
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30 to Alex Galiyev on Sat Mar 7 12:26:40 2026
    Hello Alex!

    21 May 70 04:46, you wrote to all:

    https://fidonet.press - made it to #1 in Google search results for
    "ward dossche fidonet".

    Goal achieved: Ward will be remembered as a dictator of FidoNet.

    Dump Ward, free Fidonet!


    Helmut? is that you?


    Mike


    ... Spare the rod and spoil the rod, eh - Draco
    === GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250409
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Mike Miller on Sat Mar 7 21:12:47 2026
    Mike,

    Dump Ward, free Fidonet!

    Helmut? is that you?

    I see you know your classics ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20230201
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Alex Galiyev@1:129/14.1 to Mike Miller on Wed Mar 11 22:08:32 2026
    Hello Mike!

    Saturday March 07 2026 12:26, you wrote to me:

    Dump Ward, free Fidonet!
    Helmut? is that you?
    I feel possessed by his spirit when I see the name Ward.

    Alex

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: Glory to Ukraine! Dump Trump! https://fidonet.press (1:129/14.1)
  • From Karel Kral@2:423/39 to Ward Dossche on Thu Mar 12 05:54:10 2026
    Hello Ward!

    03 Mar 26 01:56, you wrote to Alex Galiyev:

    It has been tried once ...

    I wrote many messages to that guy and deleted these before sending (do not feed trols).

    Why I will try to keep that one - and send it - to confirm: you helped a lot of people including me and you have my support.

    Karel

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
    * Origin: Plast DATA (2:423/39)
  • From Alex Galiyev@1:129/14.1 to Karel Kral on Thu Mar 12 03:57:43 2026
    Hello Karel!

    Thursday March 12 2026 05:54, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    I wrote many messages to that guy

    Trolling a dead man? I hope same thing will happen to you.

    I hope god will find a way to get rid of you in the most evil way.

    Alex

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: Glory to Ukraine! Dump Trump! https://fidonet.press (1:129/14.1)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30 to Alex Galiyev on Thu Mar 12 08:27:42 2026
    Hello Alex!

    13 Jun 70 03:56, you wrote to me:

    Dump Ward, free Fidonet!
    Helmut? is that you?
    I feel possessed by his spirit when I see the name Ward.


    You're not going to get any traction on this. Most of us are old enough that we dislike change more than anything else.

    Sure Ward has done things I don't agree with. So have a lot of people in Fight-O-Net, But at this stage nothing's going to change until we're all long dead.



    In the end, Fidonet is going to be two old farts sending netmail back and forth to each other, arguing about the policies and technology they use to do so.



    Mike


    ... Be good to your ENVIRONMENT: Purge an environmentalist!
    === GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250409
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Mike Miller on Thu Mar 12 15:28:37 2026
    Mike,

    Sure Ward has done things I don't agree with.

    Could you name a few? Real things? Not hearsay?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20230201
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30 to Ward Dossche on Thu Mar 12 10:26:11 2026
    Hello Ward!

    14 Jun 70 08:44, you wrote to me:

    Mike,

    Sure Ward has done things I don't agree with.

    Could you name a few? Real things? Not hearsay?


    This response, for one.

    You picked that part of my message to respond to, and not my hilarious joke about what Fidonet will be like at the end.
    (ok, maybe it's not MY hilarious joke, I'm sure others have made similar jokes)


    You can't please everyone all of the time, Ward. You know that. If anyone agrees or likes 100% of the things you've done in Fidonet over the years, they're not a Fidonet sysop, they're a sycophant.




    Mike


    ... What the hell is opposite sex?
    === GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250409
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Mike Miller on Thu Mar 12 18:26:06 2026
    Mike,

    You picked that part of my message to respond to, and not my hilarious
    joke about what Fidonet will be like at the end.
    (ok, maybe it's not MY hilarious joke, I'm sure others have made similar jokes)

    Actually it is spot on ... and for a large part we're already heading down that alley.

    One of the lessons I've learned in my Fido years is that our technology which binds us, also separates us because there's always an element missing ... the human touch. It is very difficult to fathom someone without knowing the person ... talk to him face to face, eat a meal, share a beer (or a coffee or even a glass of water). Fidonet over the ages has had a number of people with strong personalities whom it was very easy to get into an argument with. Because of my job then I travelled a lot in Europe (and sometimes outside) and I always attempted to link-up with people, especially the disgruntled ones and once you get to meet eye-to-eye that tended to solve a lot of problems.

    Two anecdotes. First, the ZC4 Pablo Kleinman hated my guts, don't ask me why. I passed through LA, he was there, we had breakfast together. After that it was a smooth ride.

    Second, for some odd reason there was a disconnect between me and the Greek RC. So I had to be in Athens, he and his associates made a hell ride through bad weather, mountain passes to see me ... we spent a lovely couple of hours and everything was smooth after that.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20230201
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30 to Ward Dossche on Thu Mar 12 14:01:59 2026
    Hello Ward!

    14 Jun 70 12:06, you wrote to me:

    Mike,

    You picked that part of my message to respond to, and not my
    hilarious joke about what Fidonet will be like at the end. (ok,
    maybe it's not MY hilarious joke, I'm sure others have made
    similar jokes)

    Actually it is spot on ... and for a large part we're already heading
    down that alley.

    One of the lessons I've learned in my Fido years is that our
    technology which binds us, also separates us because there's always an element missing ... the human touch. It is very difficult to fathom someone without knowing the person ... talk to him face to face, eat a meal, share a beer (or a coffee or even a glass of water). Fidonet
    over the ages has had a number of people with strong personalities
    whom it was very easy to get into an argument with. Because of my job
    then I travelled a lot in Europe (and sometimes outside) and I always attempted to link-up with people, especially the disgruntled ones and
    once you get to meet eye-to-eye that tended to solve a lot of
    problems.

    Two anecdotes. First, the ZC4 Pablo Kleinman hated my guts, don't ask
    me why. I passed through LA, he was there, we had breakfast together. After that it was a smooth ride.

    Second, for some odd reason there was a disconnect between me and the Greek RC. So I had to be in Athens, he and his associates made a hell
    ride through bad weather, mountain passes to see me ... we spent a
    lovely couple of hours and everything was smooth after that.



    yep, I fully understand that. I work remotely, but occasionally have to visit various offices for my job. a small team was brought in last year to take over doing what I've been doing the last 10 years. The manager was very stand-offish, and it was a battle any time I tried to transfer knowledge to him/his team.

    I decided the best way to dump most of this on them was to spend a week in their office, so I flew out there, and we hung out in a conference room for a week, then went out and drank in the evenings.

    No more battles after that.



    Mike


    ... Meddle not in the affairs of witches, for...<poof> ribbit? ribbit?
    === GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250409
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)
  • From Dan Clough@1:135/115 to Ward Dossche on Thu Mar 12 15:39:16 2026
    Ward Dossche wrote to Mike Miller <=-

    Sure Ward has done things I don't agree with.

    Could you name a few? Real things? Not hearsay?

    I can give one. How about this obviously non-compliant nodelist entry
    in *YOUR* segment:

    ,29,WinPoint_Help,D,Tim_Schattkowsky,-Unpublished-,300

    Why is that allowed to be there?

    I've asked you about it before and you've just ignored me. Will you
    answer this time?



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)
  • From Alex Galiyev@1:129/14.1 to Mike Miller on Thu Mar 12 21:36:12 2026
    Hello Mike!

    Thursday March 12 2026 08:27, you wrote to me:

    until we're all long dead.
    Can't wait!


    Alex

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: Glory to Ukraine! Dump Trump! https://fidonet.press (1:129/14.1)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30 to Alex Galiyev on Fri Mar 13 08:13:55 2026
    Hello Alex!

    14 Jun 70 15:41, you wrote to me:

    Hello Mike!

    Thursday March 12 2026 08:27, you wrote to me:

    until we're all long dead.
    Can't wait!



    I feel for the people of Ukraine, I hate what's happening there, and think Putin should be bound, gaged, dragged out into the street, stabbed, shot, and then REALLY hurt.


    But fuck-knuckles like you make it REALLY hard to argue that Ukrainians are good, reasonable people. Dial it back about 80% there, nutsack. I know shit is flying at you every-which-way and it feels like you're beseiged on all sides, but not everyone is your enemy.



    Mike


    ... My little corpse! - Tom as guy hugs girl
    === GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250409
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alex Galiyev on Fri Mar 13 15:44:44 2026
    Alex,

    until we're all long dead.
    Can't wait!

    If you need to wait until that moment arrives, then that will be most unfortunate for you as you will not be able to enjoy it since you are part of the "all" and "all" will be dead then.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20230201
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Fri Mar 13 16:10:05 2026
    Hi Dan,

    ,29,WinPoint_Help,D,Tim_Schattkowsky,-Unpublished-,300

    Why is that allowed to be there?

    I've asked you about it before and you've just ignored me. Will you
    answer this time?

    I'll give it a try but, I'm sorry if you will not like the answer.

    ,110,Seans_Elist_Maintainer,Johnson_City_TN_USA,Sean_Dennis,-Unpublished-,300 ICM,XX,INA:bbs.outpostbbs.net,IBN,IFC,IFT,ITN:60177,PING,TRACE

    Tell me why this one is allowed there? We all know it's a bull shit entry.

    But you know what? It's an entry in another zone therefor it is entirely none of my business.

    Now think hard what my answer to your auestion might be?

    Enjoy the week-end?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20230201
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:135/115 to Ward Dossche on Fri Mar 13 12:55:44 2026
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    ,29,WinPoint_Help,D,Tim_Schattkowsky,-Unpublished-,300

    Why is that allowed to be there?

    I've asked you about it before and you've just ignored me. Will you answer this time?

    I'll give it a try but, I'm sorry if you will not like the answer.

    ,110,Seans_Elist_Maintainer,Johnson_City_TN_USA,Sean_Dennis,-Unpublished -,300 ICM,XX,INA:bbs.outpostbbs.net,IBN,IFC,IFT,ITN:60177,PING,TRACE

    Tell me why this one is allowed there? We all know it's a bull shit
    entry.

    Yep, I agree, that's a bullshit/vanity entry. Serves no purpose, isn't accurate, and should be removed. But.... see below.

    But you know what? It's an entry in another zone therefor it is
    entirely none of my business.

    Now think hard what my answer to your auestion might be?

    Sure, I get what you're saying.

    The difference between these two examples is this. The one you
    referenced is useless/irrelevant/fluff/garbage. *BUT* - it is a valid
    entry as far as P4 goes. It's formatted correctly. It has contact information. It doesn't cause an ERROR message on nodelist processors.

    Your entry, on the other hand, is NOT A VALID ENTRY. It's missing
    several fields that are REQUIRED to be there. That's the difference,
    Ward, and I know you already know that. You knew that when you wrote
    your reply to me. So..... you still have not answered the question that
    I asked. You have attempted to divert/deflect by pointing out that it's
    none of a Z1 person's business, but you know that too. Using the
    childish argument of "Well, Johnny is doing it, so I can too!" is not an answer to anything.

    So, I'll ask again. Why do you have that *INVALID* nodelist entry in
    your segment?


    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Fri Mar 13 22:39:19 2026
    Dan,

    So, I'll ask again. Why do you have that *INVALID* nodelist entry in
    your segment?

    Thank you for decently asking.

    The true reason is that without this entry the FTSC was going to sink below the minimum membership and therefor would have to be disbanded.

    I still believe in the FTSC, unlike several others, and will do what I need to do as far as possible to support its continuation.

    Is this better?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20230201
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:135/115 to Ward Dossche on Fri Mar 13 21:59:41 2026
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Dan,

    So, I'll ask again. Why do you have that *INVALID* nodelist entry in
    your segment?

    Thank you for decently asking.

    The true reason is that without this entry the FTSC was going to sink below the minimum membership and therefor would have to be disbanded.

    I still believe in the FTSC, unlike several others, and will do what I need to do as far as possible to support its continuation.

    Is this better?

    It's better, and does actually answer the question I asked, so thanks
    for that.

    Of course it opens up other issues... So the requirement for an FTSC
    member to be a nodelisted sysop is "met" by doing this, but it's really
    not a true/honest representation. He's *NOT* a nodelisted sysop, but
    this allows him to be on the FTSC anyway. Does that seem right?

    I see your reasoning to some extent, because we probably shouldn't lose
    the FTSC because of a 40-year-old obsolete document.

    Here's an honest question - why can't P4 be changed? What's stopping
    that from happening? Or is this FTSC requirement defined in the FTSC "charter" (if that's the right word), rather than in P4? What I'm
    getting at is how can the minimum number of FTSC members be
    changed/reduced to avoid having to resort to Nodelist fuckery to
    "illegally" keep it alive? Again, these are serious questions, if you
    don't mind answering them. Thanks in advance.




    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dan Clough on Sat Mar 14 10:46:26 2026
    Hello Dan,

    On Friday March 13 2026 21:59, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    Of course it opens up other issues... So the requirement for an FTSC member to be a nodelisted sysop is "met" by doing this, but it's
    really not a true/honest representation. He's *NOT* a nodelisted
    sysop, but this allows him to be on the FTSC anyway. Does that seem right?

    It does not seem right to me...

    I see your reasoning to some extent, because we probably shouldn't
    lose the FTSC because of a 40-year-old obsolete document.

    Here's an honest question - why can't P4 be changed? What's stopping
    that from happening? Or is this FTSC requirement defined in the FTSC "charter" (if that's the right word), rather than in P4? What I'm
    getting at is how can the minimum number of FTSC members be changed/reduced to avoid having to resort to Nodelist fuckery to "illegally" keep it alive?

    Changing the required minimum number of FTSC members is not hard. All it needs is a decision by the FTSC members. In fact this already happened some years ago. The number was reduced from seven to five in order to address the problem already mentioned. Not enough candidates. But that wasn't enough to "save" the FTSC. We see what happened next...

    The sad reality is that the FTSC is the facto dead. The only visible remaining activty in the last three quarters of a decade is the yearly charade of the election. Might as well face reality and disband it.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Sat Mar 14 14:20:10 2026
    Dan,

    Of course it opens up other issues... So the requirement for an FTSC member to be a nodelisted sysop is "met" by doing this, but it's really
    not a true/honest representation. He's *NOT* a nodelisted sysop, but
    this allows him to be on the FTSC anyway. Does that seem right?

    If the requirement is to be nodelisted, then in his case the requirement is fullfilled. Yes.

    I see your reasoning to some extent, because we probably shouldn't lose
    the FTSC because of a 40-year-old obsolete document.

    The requirement is not in P4 but in the FTSC-charter which previously had a higher number of required participants but had to be lowered down more than once in view of declining numbers and competence on my suggestion. Please remark, "I" do not change these numbers, it is an FTSC-decision.

    The nomination was not based on competence. I remember Carol once nominating someone because there would be an imbalance of Z1-members versus Z2. Total nonse of cours ... even Sean Dennis got nominated and elected at one point for crying out loud.

    Here's an honest question - why can't P4 be changed? What's stopping
    that from happening? Or is this FTSC requirement defined in the FTSC "charter" (if that's the right word), rather than in P4? What I'm
    getting at is how can the minimum number of FTSC members be
    changed/reduced to avoid having to resort to Nodelist fuckery to "illegally" keep it alive? Again, these are serious questions, if you don't mind answering them. Thanks in advance.

    I think I cleared up the requirement issue, so did Michiel, it is an FTSC-decision.

    It would have been so easy to let the FTSC collapse, but I respect Andrew Leary a lot and he wants to attempt to keep it going, So who am I (or anybody else) to not allow him that opportunity?

    The real challenge is going to come next year when the mandates of Andrew Leary, Deon George, Tim Schattkowsky, and Jason Bock expire. 4 out of 5 ... will they still be available and willing? It is up to the FTSC, I think, to decide in the coming year which direction this story takes...

    As for changing P4, it has been attempted in the past and while technically feasable it was then viewed as a Z2-thing to grab power ... Aaahhh ... the 'power' in Fidonet ... I wish people one day would understand there is no power. The attempted changes were bare-minimum and the procedure was run 100% as described in P4. It eventually came down to a disturbing situation and depended upon one single RC to vote against or in favor ... again, we were talking here about nothing basic nor dramatic.

    Eventually that RC voted against and when I asked "why?" the answer was "Because I could" ... After an effort which took weeks/months I lost my appetite to try again.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20230201
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Ward Dossche on Sat Mar 14 14:38:12 2026
    Hello Ward,

    On Saturday March 14 2026 14:20, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    Of course it opens up other issues... So the requirement for an
    FTSC member to be a nodelisted sysop is "met" by doing this, but
    it's really not a true/honest representation. He's *NOT* a
    nodelisted sysop, but this allows him to be on the FTSC anyway.
    Does that seem right?

    If the requirement is to be nodelisted, then in his case the
    requirement is fullfilled. Yes.

    The requirements go beyond just "being nodelisted".

    ====== quote from FTA-1001.007

    To be selected as a FTSC member, an individual must be a Fidonet
    node, and should be actively involved in Fidonet. Examples include
    having put out a Fidonet-related product or having updated a product
    in the preceding two years, or having experience as a Coordinator,
    Echomail Coordinator or mail or file Hub.

    ====== end quote

    So the requirement is not met as 2:2/29 is not an operational Fidonet node. It can not accept incoming calls.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Dan Clough@1:135/115 to Ward Dossche on Sat Mar 14 10:37:07 2026
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Of course it opens up other issues... So the requirement for an FTSC member to be a nodelisted sysop is "met" by doing this, but it's really not a true/honest representation. He's *NOT* a nodelisted sysop, but
    this allows him to be on the FTSC anyway. Does that seem right?

    If the requirement is to be nodelisted, then in his case the
    requirement is fullfilled. Yes.

    I'd have to disagree. Yes, he is "listed" in the nodelist. But I would
    argue that the term *nodelisted* carries with it, by definition, that it
    is a proper/legal/valid/correct listing. This one is *NOT* that.

    I see your reasoning to some extent, because we probably shouldn't lose the FTSC because of a 40-year-old obsolete document.

    The requirement is not in P4 but in the FTSC-charter which previously
    had a higher number of required participants but had to be lowered down more than once in view of declining numbers and competence on my suggestion. Please remark, "I" do not change these numbers, it is an FTSC-decision.

    Okay, good.

    The nomination was not based on competence. I remember Carol once nominating someone because there would be an imbalance of Z1-members versus Z2. Total nonse of cours ... even Sean Dennis got nominated and elected at one point for crying out loud.

    Yes, those tactics are also non-acceptable.

    Here's an honest question - why can't P4 be changed? What's stopping
    that from happening? Or is this FTSC requirement defined in the FTSC "charter" (if that's the right word), rather than in P4? What I'm
    getting at is how can the minimum number of FTSC members be changed/reduced to avoid having to resort to Nodelist fuckery to "illegally" keep it alive? Again, these are serious questions, if you don't mind answering them. Thanks in advance.

    I think I cleared up the requirement issue, so did Michiel, it is an FTSC-decision.

    Yes, thank you.

    It would have been so easy to let the FTSC collapse, but I respect
    Andrew Leary a lot and he wants to attempt to keep it going, So who am
    I (or anybody else) to not allow him that opportunity?

    Understood, and agreed, in principle. But bending/breaking the rules
    and requirements as defined in the FTSC Charter *and* P4... Is that
    what you would call "allowing" it to continue, or "letting it continue regardless of rules or apparent interest level"?

    The real challenge is going to come next year when the mandates of
    Andrew Leary, Deon George, Tim Schattkowsky, and Jason Bock expire. 4
    out of 5 ... will they still be available and willing? It is up to the FTSC, I think, to decide in the coming year which direction this story takes...

    From what we've learned/discussed here, it has *ALWAYS* been up to the
    FTSC as to what direction it takes. However there has been shady
    influencing and forcing by people outside the FTSC which has been the
    reality. Will we let reality and RULES decide the direction this coming
    year, as it probably should be?

    As for changing P4, it has been attempted in the past and while technically feasable it was then viewed as a Z2-thing to grab power ... Aaahhh ... the 'power' in Fidonet ... I wish people one day would understand there is no power. The attempted changes were bare-minimum
    and the procedure was run 100% as described in P4. It eventually came
    down to a disturbing situation and depended upon one single RC to vote against or in favor ... again, we were talking here about nothing basic nor dramatic.

    That's unfortunate. Maybe in this day and age (when the "zone wars"
    have mostly subsided), it could happen? We could try...

    Eventually that RC voted against and when I asked "why?" the answer was "Because I could" ... After an effort which took weeks/months I lost my appetite to try again.

    ACK.

    Thanks for having a civil conversation. Perhaps that can continue...

    Dan



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  • From Dan Clough@1:135/115 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat Mar 14 10:37:07 2026
    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Of course it opens up other issues... So the requirement for an FTSC member to be a nodelisted sysop is "met" by doing this, but it's
    really not a true/honest representation. He's *NOT* a nodelisted
    sysop, but this allows him to be on the FTSC anyway. Does that seem right?

    It does not seem right to me...

    Same here.

    I see your reasoning to some extent, because we probably shouldn't
    lose the FTSC because of a 40-year-old obsolete document.

    Here's an honest question - why can't P4 be changed? What's stopping
    that from happening? Or is this FTSC requirement defined in the FTSC "charter" (if that's the right word), rather than in P4? What I'm
    getting at is how can the minimum number of FTSC members be changed/reduced to avoid having to resort to Nodelist fuckery to "illegally" keep it alive?

    Changing the required minimum number of FTSC members is not hard. All
    it needs is a decision by the FTSC members. In fact this already
    happened some years ago. The number was reduced from seven to five in order to address the problem already mentioned. Not enough candidates. But that wasn't enough to "save" the FTSC. We see what happened next...

    Understood, thanks.

    The sad reality is that the FTSC is the facto dead. The only visible remaining activty in the last three quarters of a decade is the yearly charade of the election. Might as well face reality and disband it.

    You may be right. It seems especially ironic right now, because there
    are actually some new technologies, methods, software, standards, specifications, etc being actively developed and released. Just exactly
    what the FTSC "needs". Not sure why there isn't more interest, nor
    anything actually being done by the FTSC. <SHRUG>



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  • From Alex Galiyev@1:129/14.1 to Mike Miller on Sun Mar 15 03:58:34 2026
    Hello Mike!

    Friday March 13 2026 08:13, you wrote to me:


    But fuck-knuckles like you make it REALLY hard to argue that
    Ukrainians are good, reasonable people.
    How come you're comparing me to Ukrainians? I've never been there, I don't know the language, and I'm not related to them at all.

    Miller, you're trying to act smart, but forget about it. You just fucked up pretty badly in front of everyone.

    Alex

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: Glory to Ukraine! Dump Trump! https://fidonet.press (1:129/14.1)
  • From Alex Galiyev@1:129/14.1 to Ward Dossche on Sun Mar 15 03:46:47 2026
    Hello Ward!

    Friday March 13 2026 15:44, you wrote to me:

    until we're all long dead.
    Can't wait!
    If you need to wait until that moment arrives, then that will be most unfortunate for you as you will not be able to enjoy it since you are
    part of the "all" and "all" will be dead then.
    Oh, Ward, I've known you since I was 16 years old, and every time you did anything, it ended in negligence, ignorance, and simply treating people like shit.

    If you think you can play a great philosopher, don't. At least not with me. I know who you are, and that is not smart.

    Alex

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: Glory to Ukraine! Dump Trump! https://fidonet.press (1:129/14.1)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dan Clough on Sun Mar 15 17:30:23 2026
    Hello Dan,

    On Saturday March 14 2026 10:37, you wrote to me:

    Of course it opens up other issues... So the requirement for an
    FTSC member to be a nodelisted sysop is "met" by doing this, but
    it's really not a true/honest representation. He's *NOT* a
    nodelisted sysop, but this allows him to be on the FTSC anyway.
    Does that seem right?

    It does not seem right to me...

    Same here.

    Consider this: Not only is 2:2/29 in violation of P4, it also is incomplient with the FTSC standards. In particular FTS-5000.005. So what we see is that in order to "save" the FTSC the FTSC standard is violated. Instigated by the IC/ZC2. Hold on to that thought...

    Changing the required minimum number of FTSC members is not
    hard. All it needs is a decision by the FTSC members. In fact
    this already happened some years ago. The number was reduced
    from seven to five in order to address the problem already
    mentioned. Not enough candidates. But that wasn't enough to
    "save" the FTSC. We see what happened next...

    Understood, thanks.

    You'r welcome. So it would not be all that hard to change it again and reduce the required number from five to three. But then what is the next step? reduce it to one? The lack of condidates is not realy the cause, it is a symptom.

    The sad reality is that the FTSC is the facto dead. The only
    visible remaining activty in the last three quarters of a decade
    is the yearly charade of the election. Might as well face
    reality and disband it.

    You may be right. It seems especially ironic right now, because there
    are actually some new technologies, methods, software, standards,
    specifications, etc being actively developed and released. Just
    exactly what the FTSC "needs". Not sure why there isn't more
    interest, nor anything actually being done by the FTSC. <SHRUG>

    When I was FTSC chairman I operated under the premisse that anyone can submit a proposal for discussion with the Fidonet comunity and then when it it picked up by developers and after due consideration it is promoted to a standard by the FTSC, it is binding. Or that at least it would be considered as such by the *C hierarchy.

    When that premise turned out to be false, it killed my motivation. *1) And so after due consideration I resigned. After that several FTSC members also were not available for another term. Writing good documentation is not a tivial task. It takes time and energy. Who wants to put time and energy in writing documentation when is can be shoved aside just like that by a decree from the "powers that be"?

    Just my EUR 0,02.


    *1) By the IC - without any consultation with the Fidonet community - who introduced the so called MOB nodes by decree. And forcing RCs to accept and process nodelist segments in violation of FTS-5000.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Mar 15 20:34:20 2026
    Michiel,

    *1) By the IC - without any consultation with the Fidonet community - who introduced the so called MOB nodes by decree. And forcing RCs to accept
    and process nodelist segments in violation of FTS-5000.

    Jean-Paul Sartre, the well known French existentionalist phylosopher, once wrote a popular play "Huis Clos" (Behind Closed Doors) where he coined the famous phrase "L'enfer, c'est les autres" (Hell is the others)...

    Maybe something worth contemplating next time while looking at yourself in the mirror.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20230201
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:135/115 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Mar 15 20:44:16 2026
    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Of course it opens up other issues... So the requirement for an
    FTSC member to be a nodelisted sysop is "met" by doing this, but
    it's really not a true/honest representation. He's *NOT* a
    nodelisted sysop, but this allows him to be on the FTSC anyway.
    Does that seem right?

    It does not seem right to me...

    Same here.

    Consider this: Not only is 2:2/29 in violation of P4, it also is incomplient with the FTSC standards. In particular FTS-5000.005. So
    what we see is that in order to "save" the FTSC the FTSC standard is violated. Instigated by the IC/ZC2. Hold on to that thought...

    Yeah, none of that makes any logical sense. Makes one wonder about
    "ulterior motives". Why save an organization that is ignored any way?

    Changing the required minimum number of FTSC members is not
    hard. All it needs is a decision by the FTSC members. In fact
    this already happened some years ago. The number was reduced
    from seven to five in order to address the problem already
    mentioned. Not enough candidates. But that wasn't enough to
    "save" the FTSC. We see what happened next...

    Understood, thanks.

    You'r welcome. So it would not be all that hard to change it again and reduce the required number from five to three. But then what is the
    next step? reduce it to one? The lack of condidates is not realy the cause, it is a symptom.

    Agreed. Why serve on a committee where you know going in that nothing
    you will try to do will go anywhere, and even if it did... it'll be
    ignored by the "upper management" anyway. Obvious cause for the lack of candidates and motivation.

    The sad reality is that the FTSC is the facto dead. The only
    visible remaining activty in the last three quarters of a decade
    is the yearly charade of the election. Might as well face
    reality and disband it.

    You may be right. It seems especially ironic right now, because there
    are actually some new technologies, methods, software, standards,
    specifications, etc being actively developed and released. Just
    exactly what the FTSC "needs". Not sure why there isn't more
    interest, nor anything actually being done by the FTSC. <SHRUG>

    When I was FTSC chairman I operated under the premisse that anyone can submit a proposal for discussion with the Fidonet comunity and then
    when it it picked up by developers and after due consideration it is promoted to a standard by the FTSC, it is binding. Or that at least it would be considered as such by the *C hierarchy.

    When that premise turned out to be false, it killed my motivation. *1) And so after due consideration I resigned. After that several FTSC members also were not available for another term. Writing good documentation is not a tivial task. It takes time and energy. Who wants to put time and energy in writing documentation when is can be shoved aside just like that by a decree from the "powers that be"?

    Yea I can see that as being a real motivation-killer.

    Just my EUR 0,02.

    *1) By the IC - without any consultation with the Fidonet community -
    who introduced the so called MOB nodes by decree. And forcing RCs to accept and process nodelist segments in violation of FTS-5000.

    Wow. That's pretty disturbing. Not even sure what MOB nodes are, to be honest, but none of that sounds like proper behavior. Ugh.




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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dan Clough on Mon Mar 16 10:06:43 2026
    Hello Dan,

    On Sunday March 15 2026 20:44, you wrote to me:

    Consider this: Not only is 2:2/29 in violation of P4, it also is
    incomplient with the FTSC standards. In particular FTS-5000.005.
    So what we see is that in order to "save" the FTSC the FTSC
    standard is violated. Instigated by the IC/ZC2. Hold on to that
    thought...

    Yeah, none of that makes any logical sense. Makes one wonder about "ulterior motives". Why save an organization that is ignored any way?

    I don't know about the "ulterior motives" but ineed, why save a paper tiger?

    [..]

    Yea I can see that as being a real motivation-killer.

    It was and for me still is indeed.

    Just my EUR 0,02.

    *1) By the IC - without any consultation with the Fidonet
    community - who introduced the so called MOB nodes by decree.
    And forcing RCs to accept and process nodelist segments in
    violation of FTS-5000.

    Wow. That's pretty disturbing. Not even sure what MOB nodes are,

    Something like this:

    ,865,Lucas_Visions,Mortsel,Luc_Sienaert,-Unpublished-,300,U,MOB

    See also my article in Fidonews 36:43 [01/07]


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30 to Alex Galiyev on Mon Mar 16 09:14:57 2026
    Hello Alex!

    18 Jun 70 08:50, you wrote to me:

    Hello Mike!

    Friday March 13 2026 08:13, you wrote to me:


    But fuck-knuckles like you make it REALLY hard to argue that
    Ukrainians are good, reasonable people.
    How come you're comparing me to Ukrainians? I've never been there, I
    don't know the language, and I'm not related to them at all.

    Miller, you're trying to act smart, but forget about it. You just
    fucked up pretty badly in front of everyone.


    Yeah, I made an assumption, much like what you've been doing.

    I guess the thing is that I didn't really care enough to know who the heck you were.


    I still don't.

    Mike


    ... Ez-reader on day off...the joys of June
    === GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250409
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)
  • From Dan Clough@1:135/115 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Mar 16 11:04:22 2026
    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Consider this: Not only is 2:2/29 in violation of P4, it also is
    incomplient with the FTSC standards. In particular FTS-5000.005.
    So what we see is that in order to "save" the FTSC the FTSC
    standard is violated. Instigated by the IC/ZC2. Hold on to that
    thought...

    Yeah, none of that makes any logical sense. Makes one wonder about "ulterior motives". Why save an organization that is ignored any way?

    I don't know about the "ulterior motives" but ineed, why save a paper tiger?

    I don't know why it (FTSC) needs to be saved. I think the answer is
    closely tied to the "motives" question, though. Maybe there's only one
    person who knows the answer?

    *1) By the IC - without any consultation with the Fidonet
    community - who introduced the so called MOB nodes by decree.
    And forcing RCs to accept and process nodelist segments in
    violation of FTS-5000.

    Wow. That's pretty disturbing. Not even sure what MOB nodes are,

    Something like this:

    ,865,Lucas_Visions,Mortsel,Luc_Sienaert,-Unpublished-,300,U,MOB

    See also my article in Fidonews 36:43 [01/07]

    Yep, I just finished reading the article. Those MOB nodes make no more
    sense than the invalid 2:2/29 entry. Sure would like to know the
    actual/real reason that Ward wants such things in the nodelist, and how
    he justifies disregarding P4 so blatantly.

    I have a hope that he might jump in here and shed some light, but as a
    medical precaution I won't be holding my breath. Thanks for the
    information you've provided.



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  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Mar 16 16:26:00 2026
    Hello Michiel!

    ** On Monday 16.03.26 - 10:06, you wrote:

    MvdV> See also my article in Fidonews 36:43 [01/07]

    Which file is that exactly at http://eljaco.se/FILES/fnews/ ??


    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.64
    * Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Mon Mar 16 22:36:10 2026
    Hello August,

    On Monday March 16 2026 16:26, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> See also my article in Fidonews 36:43 [01/07]

    Which file is that exactly at http://eljaco.se/FILES/fnews/ ??


    FNEWTA43.ZIP


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Karel Kral@2:423/39 to Dan Clough on Tue Mar 17 07:26:09 2026
    Hello Dan!

    16 Mar 26 11:04, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    I have a hope that he might jump in here and shed some light, but as a

    Read that article and (that) detail si missing there (let say, it is one point of view to that situation). If it was communicated in 2019 somehow - I missed that (I am sorry).

    Hopefully Ward find some time to clarify. (I mean, I am not so in to know why pvt so big deal, at least for a while, etc.)

    Karel

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
    * Origin: Plast DATA (2:423/39)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to August Abolins on Tue Mar 17 08:40:49 2026
    August Abolins -> Michiel van der Vlist skrev 2026-03-16 21:26:
    Which file is that exactly at http://eljaco.se/FILES/fnews/ ??

    Volume 36 = TA, so FNEWTA43.ZIP

    You can also find the actual article file as received, in INPU3643.ZIP



    --

    "When Oil Prices Go Up, We Make a Lot of Money."
    -- Stable Genius, 12 mars 2026

    ..

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Michiel van der Vlist on Wed Mar 18 00:02:31 2026
    Michiel,

    Something like this:

    ,865,Lucas_Visions,Mortsel,Luc_Sienaert,

    You're certain you're not an American woman? Luc died like somewhat like 8 years ago ... Only disgruntled divorced American women dig up dirt like that in order to gain an advantage ....

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20230201
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Wed Mar 18 02:04:54 2026
    Hello Dan,

    ,865,Lucas_Visions,Mortsel,Luc_Sienaert,-Unpublished-,300,U,MOB
    ...
    Yep, I just finished reading the article. Those MOB nodes make no more sense than the invalid 2:2/29 entry. Sure would like to know the actual/real reason that Ward wants such things in the nodelist, and how
    he justifies disregarding P4 so blatantly.

    I'm not certain how the concept of user-flags is interpreted in Z1, or even if it is used at all, but this is what FTS-5001.006 showed when I went looking:

    **************************************************************************** 6.1 Format Of User Flags
    ....
    Entries following the "U" flag must be of a technical or
    administrative nature. While experimentation of new software
    functions using this flag is encouraged, advertisement is strictly
    prohibited. ****************************************************************************

    Pls read carefully "While experimentation of new software functions using this flag is encouraged..."

    As it was, the developper of Aftershock Anatoly Vdovichev claimed he was working on technology which would allow his product, which basically is a primitive mail-out only system on Android, to accept a kind of inbound-connections as long as there was WiFi connectivity. He requested a specific user-flag AFS to indicate a mobile node using an Aftershock implementation. That was Sept.8 2017 ... close to 9 years ago. Mind you, that is the time frame Michiel is referencing.

    The same day, for identical reasons another user-flag HDG was introduced to indicate a mobile node using an HotdogEd implementation (HotdogEd being also a primitive mail-out only system on Android).

    As a catch-all measure for any software surfacing with the same intentions, I invented the MOB user-flag indicating a mobile node using an unidentified platform or implementation. Sept.11 2017.

    Sept 23 2017 Because of redundancies AFS- and HDG-user-flags were discontinued. Only MOB remained for these testing purposes and a number of entries were introduced into the nodelist. The development went nowhere and the user-flag was scrapped in 2022.

    Please tell me what your problem is when a developer wants to attempt something which the FTSC-pope from the Netherlands doesn't like?

    The intention was to have hand-held nodes which would work from anywhere without any set-up tinckering ... you live in the US, go to South Africa, flip open your phone and get served with your mail without having to initiate anything or wade through set-up files...

    Over the years there have been other weird/funny flags which you could say are a violation of something somewhere .... for example the BEER user-flag, AVI4 and AVI6. You need a list so you can become upset and thinking you have discovered the holy grail?

    I have a hope that he might jump in here and shed some light, but as a medical precaution I won't be holding my breath.

    What kind of a preposterous assumption is that? If a person approaches me respectfully, I will deal with it respectfully ... not in how you're proceeding here wihout understanding what you are dealing with.

    To quote my good friend Nick Andre, indeed... "good friend", "Everyone thinks that the work of a ZC is limited to producing a nodelist weekly. it is so much more that no one ever sees." He reminded me of that wisdom last week when we were on the phone for close to an hour ironing out a myriad of things.

    2:2/29 ?? I don't understand at all what the problem is with a nodelist entry from a guy you don't know, who doesn't interest you, who doesn't bother you and whom you're certainly not going to try to crashmail. Don't tell me that the presence of that one node limits how you can enjoy your Fidonet hobby.

    But if absolute compliance with P4 is such a holy cow from your perspective the weekly nodelist production is the task of the IC, not a ZC .... any ZC ...as stated in P4, but you haven't stumbled upon that yet either.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20230201
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Ward Dossche on Wed Mar 18 11:01:15 2026
    Hello Ward,

    On Wednesday March 18 2026 00:02, you wrote to me:

    Something like this:

    ,865,Lucas_Visions,Mortsel,Luc_Sienaert,

    You're certain you're not an American woman? Luc died like somewhat
    like 8 years ago ... Only disgruntled divorced American women dig up
    dirt like that in order to gain an advantage ....

    Luc's demise is sad but irrelevant. He was alive when you entered the above line in the nodelist.

    I stand 100% for what I wrote in my Fidonews article and I am done arguing. If you see me as a disgruntled divorced American woman, so be it.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Dan Clough@1:135/115 to Ward Dossche on Wed Mar 18 09:39:54 2026
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Hello Dan,

    ,865,Lucas_Visions,Mortsel,Luc_Sienaert,-Unpublished-,300,U,MOB

    Yep, I just finished reading the article. Those MOB nodes make no more sense than the invalid 2:2/29 entry. Sure would like to know the actual/real reason that Ward wants such things in the nodelist, and how
    he justifies disregarding P4 so blatantly.

    I'm not certain how the concept of user-flags is interpreted in Z1, or even if it is used at all, but this is what FTS-5001.006 showed when I went looking:

    ************************************************************************ ****
    6.1 Format Of User Flags
    ....
    Entries following the "U" flag must be of a technical or
    administrative nature. While experimentation of new software
    functions using this flag is encouraged, advertisement is strictly
    prohibited. ************************************************************************ ****

    Pls read carefully "While experimentation of new software functions
    using this flag is encouraged..."

    As it was, the developper of Aftershock Anatoly Vdovichev claimed he
    was working on technology which would allow his product, which
    basically is a primitive mail-out only system on Android, to accept a
    kind of inbound-connections as long as there was WiFi connectivity. He requested a specific user-flag AFS to indicate a mobile node using an Aftershock implementation. That was Sept.8 2017 ... close to 9 years
    ago. Mind you, that is the time frame Michiel is referencing.

    The same day, for identical reasons another user-flag HDG was
    introduced to indicate a mobile node using an HotdogEd implementation (HotdogEd being also a primitive mail-out only system on Android).

    As a catch-all measure for any software surfacing with the same intentions, I invented the MOB user-flag indicating a mobile node using
    an unidentified platform or implementation. Sept.11 2017.

    Sept 23 2017 Because of redundancies AFS- and HDG-user-flags were discontinued. Only MOB remained for these testing purposes and a number
    of entries were introduced into the nodelist. The development went
    nowhere and the user-flag was scrapped in 2022.

    Please tell me what your problem is when a developer wants to attempt something which the FTSC-pope from the Netherlands doesn't like?

    I'd say it is so much what that particular person "doesn't like". I
    think it was more that that person was the one who felt like standing up
    (or at least speaking out) against something which he thought was an
    over-use of the "authority" granted to a ZC/IC. Specifically, the way
    the new user-flags were just "decreed" rather than being
    discussed/ratified by whoever (other ZCs, maybe RCs). That's all.

    The intention was to have hand-held nodes which would work from
    anywhere without any set-up tinckering ... you live in the US, go to
    South Africa, flip open your phone and get served with your mail
    without having to initiate anything or wade through set-up files...

    Over the years there have been other weird/funny flags which you could
    say are a violation of something somewhere .... for example the BEER user-flag, AVI4 and AVI6. You need a list so you can become upset and thinking you have discovered the holy grail?

    No, I don't need a list. Please note your own snarkiness here...

    I have a hope that he might jump in here and shed some light, but as a medical precaution I won't be holding my breath.

    What kind of a preposterous assumption is that? If a person approaches
    me respectfully, I will deal with it respectfully ... not in how you're proceeding here wihout understanding what you are dealing with.

    It wasn't an assumption. It was a statement made based on my prior experiences when trying to discuss something with you. Quite honestly,
    the usual process has been one of the below:
    1. Complete ignoring of the question(s), because it would have made you
    look bad, or possibly your realization that your position was completely non-defensable.
    2. A (sort-of) answer, which more often than not was just deflection/diversion/denial/smoke-and-mirrors. AKA just bullshit.

    To quote my good friend Nick Andre, indeed... "good friend", "Everyone thinks that the work of a ZC is limited to producing a nodelist weekly.
    it is so much more that no one ever sees." He reminded me of that
    wisdom last week when we were on the phone for close to an hour ironing out a myriad of things.

    I am aware that there is plenty of behind-the-scenes work involved.

    2:2/29 ?? I don't understand at all what the problem is with a
    nodelist entry from a guy you don't know, who doesn't interest you, who doesn't bother you and whom you're certainly not going to try to crashmail. Don't tell me that the presence of that one node limits how
    you can enjoy your Fidonet hobby.

    No, it doesn't affect me, really. It's more just that it's so BLATANTLY invalid, and is there as a ZIN with the obvious knowledge of the ZC, who doesn't seem to care about the requirements of P4. Basically it's not
    the expected conduct of somebody in that position - maybe an ignorant NC
    or something would do it, but at least *I* would expect better from a
    ZC.

    But if absolute compliance with P4 is such a holy cow from your perspective the weekly nodelist production is the task of the IC, not a
    ZC .... any ZC ...as stated in P4, but you haven't stumbled upon that
    yet either.

    See above about the expected conduct of a ZC, and just substitute "IC"
    for "ZC". Hope that helps you understand, and I *have* read that in P4.

    You don't need to reply if you don't want to, as there probably isn't
    any further useful content that can be supplied by either of us. Bottom
    line is that you're violating P4, you don't seem to care, and there's nothing any of us can do about it.



    ... Oxymoron: A contradiction in terms, e.g. rap music...
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