The lack of computer literacy and rotting of it to dumb it down for the brain rotten ipad kids ... did i just sound old? im just 35 xD
It is a serious concern for mine for the humans. My love Noctalon agrees with me.
Nightfox wrote to mary4 <=-
I've had the same thought.. When I was growing up, it was common
wisdom that computers & related technology are here to stay, so it's
odd to me that there seems to be a bit of computer illiteracy with some younger people these days. If anything, I thought people of newer generations would be more computer literate than people in the past.
The lack of computer literacy and rotting of it to dumb it down for the brain rotten ipad kids ... did i just sound old? im just 35 xD
RetroSwim wrote to mary4 <=-
Or to put it another way: The wonder and intrigue we had as youngsters, with computers in their own right, will be difficult to inspire going forward. And that makes me sad.
Setting IRQs and ports on peripherals using DIP switches, getting itInternal modems were not fun.
all right, flipping a big red switch, watching the memory test, then
the longest of pauses, a beep - and a C: prompt.
Internal modems were not fun.
Setting up comports.Internal modems were not fun.
Why do you say that? They were very easy to configure and they didn't use any
extra power outlets. At one point, I had 2 internal modems for my 2 phone lines.
The lack of computer literacy and rotting of it to dumb it down for t brain rotten ipad kids ... did i just sound old? im just 35 xD
I'm of two minds about it.
On one hand, I think it's a shitty idea to gatekeep the benefits of technology behind some kind of arbitrary skill check. For the longest time, effectively using computers was walled behind knowledge of
technical concepts like directories and files. The idea to abstract all that away when iOS and Android rose to prominence was genius. Computing became task- and outcome-focussed, rather than wrangling with the
machine. This is all a "Good Thing TM".
On the other hand, because computers are ubiquitous and accessible to
all, they're just a part of the furniture now, and it's hard to get
young people excited and interested in computers beyond using them as a tool to achieve a task or goal.
Or to put it another way: The wonder and intrigue we had as youngsters, with computers in their own right, will be difficult to inspire going forward. And that makes me sad.
Cheers,
Setting IRQs and ports on peripherals using DIP switches, getting itInternal modems were not fun.
all right, flipping a big red switch, watching the memory test, then
the longest of pauses, a beep - and a C: prompt.
Matthew Munson wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-
Internal modems were not fun.
Matthew Munson wrote to Exodus <=-
On 4/19/2026 4:06 PM, Exodus wrote to Matthew Munson:
Why do you say that? They were very easy to configure and they didn't use an
y
extra power outlets. At one point, I had 2 internal modems for my 2 phone lines.
Setting up comports.
The thing is, Directories and Files still exist. iOS and Android abstract them away and obscure what is going on underneath. DOS was raw, you dealt with the system as it actually was. With Windows 11, you have a folder hierarchy which doesn't actually represent how the files are stored.
Internal modems were not fun.
Perceptions change. I remember not wanting to use an internal on the BBS because if the modem hung you'd need to reboot the WHOLE COMPUTER to reset it.
Matthew Munson wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-
Internal modems were not fun.
Perceptions change. I remember not wanting to use an internal on the BBS because if the modem hung you'd need to reboot the WHOLE COMPUTER to
reset it.
Re: Re: Computers Literacy
By: boraxman to RetroSwim on Mon Apr 20 2026 09:00 pm
The thing is, Directories and Files still exist. iOS and Android abs them away and obscure what is going on underneath. DOS was raw, you with the system as it actually was. With Windows 11, you have a fold hierarchy which doesn't actually represent how the files are stored.
How is Windows 11 different in its folder/directory heirarchy? You
still work with files & directories on Windows 11; it's not much
different than DOS, aside from long filenames.
Nightfox
I'm not in front of a Windows box here at home (I don't use W11), but I do use it at work. The issues I have are...
* Can be unclear what is stored on your C: and what is one "One Drive".
* My Documents is where exactly? Going up a folder may or may not take you to the parent folder. I know its under my home directory but going "up" doesn't always just take me to the parent folder, but a pseudo folder with common used folders.
* C: is below My Computer, which doesn't always appear top level.
I'm not in front of a Windows box here at home (I don't use W11), but use it at work. The issues I have are...
* Can be unclear what is stored on your C: and what is one "One Drive
I've been using Windows 11 for a while, and IMO it's not hard to figure that out..
* My Documents is where exactly? Going up a folder may or may not tak to the parent folder. I know its under my home directory but going " doesn't always just take me to the parent folder, but a pseudo folder common used folders.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean here.. Your "My Documents" folder is always under your home directory, which is in C:\Users\<your_name>
I've seen the pseudo folders, and I agree that's annoying, but you can go specifically to your home directory on the C:\Users directory and go from there, and IMO it's not difficult. The directory heirarchy on the hard drive in Windows 11 is the same as it's always been, including DOS. The weird pseudo directory stuff is something Windows 11 does on top of that.
* C: is below My Computer, which doesn't always appear top level.
What do you mean by "appear top level"?
Nightfox
This is just annoying. "Up a level", from the EXACT same folder,
differs based on how you go to the folder in the first place.
Internal modems were not fun.
Why do you say that? They were very easy to configure and they didn't use any extra power outlets.
Maybe its the setup at work, but if I go to "Documents" or "Downloads", which I do often, from the pinned folders, then go up a level, I go back to the pinned folders, which seems to be a One Drive overview. BUT, if I go through Users ->My User ->> Documents, I get the exact same folder, but now going up goes back
to My User.
This is just annoying. "Up a level", from the EXACT same folder, differs based on how you go to the folder in the first place.
Not to defend Microslop (and I won't), but this seems like having a pointer-based file system rather than a hierarchical one. And it's not like the hard drive itself is organized around this.
But I'm not about to defend them on this, because my problem is that I need to be able to address and reliably get to x point, and I think Microslop's approach to this winds up making it harder to find where things are actually living.That sounds a little like Recoll https://www.lesbonscomptes.com/recoll/pages/index-recoll.html
But I don't have examples of things I was trying to do that annoyed me.
On the other hand, I have a half-formed idea in my head where it'd be
nice to have some sort of file database that would help me keep track of where I have files (and backups), along with "last seens" for backup drives, that I could then search among.
And hopefully create some sort of a web for, so that I'm linking things all over the place, since, e.g., my photos from March should be both in
a march 2026 folder and, e.g., a "photos of my plants" set of folders.
But I haven't found any software that does what I've been thinking
about, and the idea is too ill-formed for me to try and create my own.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
Re: Re: Computers Literacy
By: boraxman to Nightfox on Wed Apr 22 2026 10:35 pm
Maybe its the setup at work, but if I go to "Documents" or "Downloads which I do often, from the pinned folders, then go up a level, I go b to the pinned folders, which seems to be a One Drive overview. BUT, go through Users ->My User ->> Documents, I get the exact same folder, but now going up
to My User.goes back
Yeah, I've seen that too, and it seems Windows 11 even does that by default when installed on a home computer. I do find it a bit annoying, but I've figured out (like you) that I can go through users\My user\Documents to get to the one on my local computer.
Microsoft seems to want to push OneDrive (among other things), and I suspect it would lead to Microsoft telling users "You're running out of space on OneDrive, but you can get more space (for a fee)!", similar to what Google does with its Google Drive and backing up your phone photos
by default & such..
That kind of thing is one of the reasons why I switched to using Linux full-time on my main PC at home a few months ago. I feel like Windows
was getting a bit too annoying with the stuff it (and Microsoft) is
doing these days. Also, it seems that support for running Windows games on Linux is better than ever these days - I'm able to play Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 in Linux using Proton (and I installed it from the Steam store), and it works great. I feel like there's little need for Windows at home these days..
Nightfox wrote to boraxman <=-
Microsoft seems to want to push OneDrive (among other things), and I suspect it would lead to Microsoft telling users "You're running out of space on OneDrive, but you can get more space (for a fee)!", similar to what Google does with its Google Drive and backing up your phone photos
by default & such..
That sounds a little like Recoll https://www.lesbonscomptes.com/recoll/pages/index-recoll.html
It is a search tool, indexes your files so you can search for them like
in a web search. Supports tags I think to, so you may be able to get close to what you want.
I've had the same thought.. When I was growing up, it was common wisdom that computers & related technology are here to stay, so it's odd to me that there seems to be a bit of computer illiteracy with some younger people these days. If anything, I thought people of newer generations would be more computer literate than people in the past.
For a lot of them, the computer is their phone or a gaming device. They don't use a computer for "computing" any more.
On one hand, I think it's a shitty idea to gatekeep the benefits of technology behind some kind of arbitrary skill check. For the longest time, effectively using computers was walled behind knowledge of
technical concepts like directories and files. The idea to abstract all that away when iOS and Android rose to prominence was genius. Computing became task- and outcome-focussed, rather than wrangling with the
machine. This is all a "Good Thing TM".
On the other hand, because computers are ubiquitous and accessible to
all, they're just a part of the furniture now, and it's hard to get
young people excited and interested in computers beyond using them as a tool to achieve a task or goal.
Or to put it another way: The wonder and intrigue we had as youngsters, with computers in their own right, will be difficult to inspire going forward. And that makes me sad.
Setting IRQs and ports on peripherals using DIP switches, getting it
all right, flipping a big red switch, watching the memory test, then
the longest of pauses, a beep - and a C: prompt.
That was ASMR long before anyone knew the term. :)
Setting up comports.do you do that with the multi I/O CARD?? I have some and they have jumpers for the i/o and com1 settings for IRQ4
The thing is, Directories and Files still exist. iOS and Android
abstract them away and obscure what is going on underneath. DOS was
raw, you dealt with the system as it actually was. With Windows 11, you have a folder hierarchy which doesn't actually represent how the files
are stored.
This leads to increased confusions, and an incorrect understanding.
Young people actually are not that good with computers atall. They can bo> use a phone, perform single tasks which hand hold them, but anything bo> more abstract, and they are lost.
Internal software driven modems came strait from the devils asshole, but hardware based modems were fine. I had an internal 33.6K modem for a while it was great.
Rebooting a DOS box took, what, 30 seconds?
i suspect this might be a conversation about softmodems? they took a
cool idea (a fast reprogrammable chip inside of the modem that could be reprogrammed to support newer standards) and used it to cheap out as
much as possible (hide some audio channels like a sound card so they can take care of it in software on the PC.. pretty much why at the end a one card soundcard/modem was common on prebuilts)
The thing is, Directories and Files still exist. iOS and Androi them away and obscure what is going on underneath. DOS was raw, with the system as it actually was. With Windows 11, you have a hierarchy which doesn't actually represent how the files are sto
How is Windows 11 different in its folder/directory heirarchy? You still work with files & directories on Windows 11; it's not much different than DOS, aside from long filenames.
Nightfox
I'm not in front of a Windows box here at home (I don't use W11), but I
do use it at work. The issues I have are...
* Can be unclear what is stored on your C: and what is one "One Drive".
* My Documents is where exactly? Going up a folder may or may not take
you to the parent folder. I know its under my home directory but going "up" doesn't always just take me to the parent folder, but a pseudo
folder with common used folders.
* C: is below My Computer, which doesn't always appear top level.
With DOS, you always knew exactly where in the heirarchy you were, with Windows 11 not always so.
Ditto. Now the Winmodems, those were bad.Winhardware is always horrid
That kind of thing is one of the reasons why I switched to using Linux full-time on my main PC at home a few months ago. I feel like Windows
was getting a bit too annoying with the stuff it (and Microsoft) is
doing these days. Also, it seems that support for running Windows games on Linux is better than ever these days - I'm able to play Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 in Linux using Proton (and I installed it from the Steam store), and it works great. I feel like there's little need for Windows at home these days..
it's honestly sad how dumbed down computers have gotten. like i personally think they are far too dumb down for everyone. tbh. They need a bit more challenge. just a slight use of the brain then i am happy mate. They need moar CLI usage. the heavy GUI usage with no CLI is a problem to me. I use CLI all the time as it is very fast and more efficient.
got side tracked. but I dont do alot of media watching because i am very busy with spooky things these days. also hi everyone! :3
Rebooting a DOS box took, what, 30 seconds?
longer if u used floppies to boot a 286 or XT system
I think Linux could be in a state where a lot of people could easily make use of it and get away from Windows.
The thing is, Directories and Files still exist. iOS and Android abstract them away and obscure what is going on underneath. DOS was raw, you dealt with the system as it actually was. With Windows 11, you have a folder hierarchy which doesn't actually represent how the files are stored.
Of course they do. And that's more or less what I said, right?
Let me put it another way.
You used to have to understand+manage fuel mixture and ignition timing to drive a car. You don't have to any more, the activity of driving is not about managing the motor vehicle, but navigating the road and
negotiating traffic, to safely reach your destination. The car manages itself in the background, and alerts you when it needs intervention.
Files and directories are (in this analogy, at least!) fuel mixture and ignition timing. The software manages them, so you can focus on taking pictures, listening to music, writing documents, actually doing the macroscopic tasks you care about.
And to build on that analogy, project cars still exist if you enjoy
caring about the operation of the engine, and Android/Linux still exist
if you enjoy caring about files and directories.
Cheers,
RetroSwim
This is just annoying. "Up a level", from the EXACT same folder,
differs based on how you go to the folder in the first place.
Retroswim wrote to boraxman <=-
And to build on that analogy, project cars still exist if you enjoy
caring about the operation of the engine, and Android/Linux still exist
if you enjoy caring about files and directories.
Files and directories are (in this analogy, at least!) fuel mixture and ignition timing. The software manages them, so you can focus on taking pictures, listening to music, writing documents, actually doing the macroscopic tasks you care about.
The issue is that instead of being a predictable hierarchy that you
can reason with, you need to use multiple reasoning methods
depending on how you access it. I complain not just because it
annoys me, but because I have to explain to work colleagues where
their files are.
I wonder how many people here have had a car with a manual choke?
I wonder how many people here have had a car with a manual choke?
This is how I look at Windows in this regard:
"Home" is your user directory. This is where your "Desktop", "Downloads", "Documents" etc. folders are, which is actually very much, if not
exactly how Linux handles things once you install a GUI/desktop environment.
"Quick access" you can setup folders to go straight to. I'm sure there's probably a way to do this on Linux in a GUI/desktop environment, too.
"This PC" is where your drives are (or "/" on Linux). If you want to
start at a drive letter, and traverse into directories from there,
that's what you use. If you expand "This PC" it shows your drive(s).
Also, if you open a command prompt, it takes you directly to your user's directory, also similar to Linux.
I don't really see anything confusing about that. While somewhat
different naming conventions, it's very similar to Linux; again, once
one were to install a GUI/desktop.. which is what Windows is.
Regards,
Nick
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Retroswim <=-
Retroswim wrote to boraxman <=-
And to build on that analogy, project cars still exist if you enjoy
caring about the operation of the engine, and Android/Linux still exist
if you enjoy caring about files and directories.
I wonder how many people here have had a car with a manual choke?
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Retroswim <=-
Retroswim wrote to boraxman <=-
And to build on that analogy, project cars still exist if you enjoy caring about the operation of the engine, and Android/Linux still exis
if you enjoy caring about files and directories.
I wonder how many people here have had a car with a manual choke?
I rode in one as recently as high school (c1988 - a Chevy Vega), and
rode in a few over time before that, but never owned one.
I wonder how many people here have had a car with a manual choke?
I think its the Quick Access part which bugs me, as Explorer shows
it as a folder, when it is not a folder. Its a pseudofolder.
Maybe.
Each time I've responded to this thread, I've checked at work to see
if I'm crazy or not, and yes, each time I can replicate the "issue"
of "parent folder" being different depending on how I got there.
Its not a HUGE issue, the phone bugs me a lot, lot more than
Windows. You also have "This PC", which is different to? Am I not
already on this PC?
I just found I have two "Documents" folder, one is on One Drive, and
one is on my C:. Again, you can wind up in the One Drive one using
the wrong shortcut.
Maybe its just me, as I work to very specific rules, and if the
system has exceptions, it throws me off.
Yes. "This PC" is basically root. I could name plenty of other things that would be better than "This PC", but I assume MS is just dumbing things down for the normal user. ;)
I once owned a 1970 Ford Maverick where I had to "fix" the automatic choke. I replaced it with a manual one. I actually like it but didn't always remember to open it all the way once up and running!
Windows has basically been like that since Windows 95 (though until
Windows 11, it was called "My Computer").
On a somewhat related note, I've seen memes online joking about how
they renamed that (replacing "my" with "this") - Do they no longer
consider the computer yours anymore?
Nice. A friend had a 1970 Maverick with a 302 and a 3-speed manual.
Red with a white top. Rode in it a lot. When he was away during the
Gulf War, his sister wrecked it. :O He later had another one with a straight-six and, IIRC, also a 3-speed manual.
I think it's just direct access to a specific folder, and you can not traverse backwards from that folder.
Ah, I may see what you mean now. I went to "Downloads", then went
forward to another directory, then hit the back button, ended up back in "Downloads", then when I hit back again, it went to home.
It seems to remember where you went during the same session. I went to "Desktop" in the same session, and then went back to "Downloads, and the back button got me back to "Desktop" before it went to "Home". I can see how that would be confusing, but I guess I don't use it enough.
I closed the file manager, re-opened it, and it started fresh without a location "history", if you will. Think of it as similar to browser history, maybe?
If I want something specifically in "Downloads", I use that. If I want to traverse, I use "This PC".
Yes. "This PC" is basically root. I could name plenty of other things
that would be better than "This PC", but I assume MS is just dumbing things down for the normal user. ;)
Isn't OneDrive a cloud backup? I think it's your actual folder, just backed up on the cloud. I disable that as soon as I install Windows,
along with any other "sharing" related stuff and/or sending reports to
MS, etc. they try to get you to do.
Oddly enough, I just loaded up an Arch VM with KDE installed, which uses the Dolphin file manager. It does the /exact/ same thing as I described above (retaining the directories you went into, and when backing out all the way it goes to "Home".
You have to go down to your drive(s) listed under "Devices" in order to start from '/'. So I imagine that's probably just Dolphin copying how Windows does it, or something.
Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I wonder how many people here have had a car with a manual choke?
I have not (and, heck, my mechanic knowledge is mostly restricted to bicycles, which are delightfully simple.), though I do remember my
grandpa starting his antique tractor, after previously parking it at
the top of the hill so that it could get a rolling start.
And that a manual choke was definitely involved.
(but also that I mostly viewed it as a danger machine.)
If that tractor still exists, I'm thinking its 100th birthday isn't _super_ far away.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
Ditto for that old dryer I got rid of a couple of years ago. Built like
a tank, simple as could be. And it dried clothes.
The "C:" is a subset of "This PC", where you also see the shortcuts.
Depends on how your organisation set things up. The PC's at my
workplace have a "Documents" on One Drive, which is different to the
other one. Sometimes when I save to "Documents", it ends up there.
Hard to tell the difference initially. They are two seperate
folders.
Mine had a straight-six with an automatic that I repainted metallic blue. It wa
a great little car until a freeze plug got a hole in it. I would of had to dr
p the engine to get at it. It ended up at the local salvage yard. Just to keep
on subject, it did not have any computers in it!
The "C:" is a subset of "This PC", where you also see the shortcuts.
That's not what I'm seeing. I also haven't changed anything from the default install.
At the top of the left menu, is Home, Gallery, and OneDrive. Then there
is a divider line. After that, is all of my "shortcuts" or "quick
access" folders. Then, another divider line. After that, is This PC with Local Disk (C:), New Volume (D:), New Volume (E:), and Network.
It seems much less confusing than how you're describing your setup. Maybe whoever setup the computers where you work changed things up?
Depends on how your organisation set things up. The PC's at my workplace have a "Documents" on One Drive, which is different to the other one. Sometimes when I save to "Documents", it ends up there.
Hard to tell the difference initially. They are two seperate
folders.
So, I would assume that the "Documents" on OneDrive are shared among the company. The other one, is local to your computer?
| Sysop: | altere |
|---|---|
| Location: | Houston, TX |
| Users: | 74 |
| Nodes: | 4 (0 / 4) |
| Uptime: | 01:53:34 |
| Calls: | 1,950 |
| Files: | 9,179 |
| Messages: | 316,097 |